Vegas Show

[Randy G Roberts]

Who amongst us has plans to attend? The wife and I plan on attending, well let me rephrase that. I plan on attending the show while she is getting the spa treatment.

[Reggie Bishop]

You are a smart man! Buy me a nice graded small bore Parker!

[Randy G Roberts]

You are a smart man! Buy me a nice graded small bore Parker!

No problem Reggie. I know you're good for it !

[Stan Hoover]

I look forward to seeing you Randy, been a couple years since I've been able to attend.

[Garry L Gordon]

Those unfortunates like me look forward to your reports…and photos/details of any acquisitions.

[Randy G Roberts]

Those unfortunates like me look forward to your reports…and photos/details of any acquisitions.

Will do Garry. I will follow Mr Hoover around and attempt to photograph all of his acquisitions and post them with a few details, with his permission of course. They do not call him "Stan the Man" for nuttin.:corn:

[Stan Hoover]

Will do Garry. I will follow Mr Hoover around and attempt to photograph all of his acquisitions and post them with a few details, with his permission of course. They do not call him "Stan the Man" for nuttin.:corn:

Geez,

Here I was going to just hopefully walk after a senior PGCA member if he allows me, maybe learn a few things and buy some keepsakes if I see any:rolleyes:

This may be interesting yet:whistle:

[Garry L Gordon]

You two just remember, the PGCA does not have bail money. :rotf:

[Randy G Roberts]

Geez,

Here I was going to just hopefully walk after a senior PGCA member if he allows me, maybe learn a few things and buy some keepsakes if I see any:rolleyes:

This may be interesting yet:whistle:

That was funny right up to the "Senior' comment. :rotf:

[Chuck Bishop]

Good one Stan:bowdown:

[CraigThompson]

Geez,

Here I was going to just hopefully walk after a senior PGCA member if he allows me, maybe learn a few things and buy some keepsakes if I see any:rolleyes:

This may be interesting yet:whistle:

I have a feeling ALL the money in the joint will be in possession of these two :whistle::rotf::rotf::rotf:

[Stan Hoover]

I have a feeling ALL the money in the joint will be in possession of these two :whistle::rotf::rotf::rotf:

All I can say is, Mr Roberts must be far more wealthy than I anticipated :shock:

Or…. You Mr Thompson better refill your meds prescription :p

[Randy G Roberts]

[QUOTE=Stan Hoover;423551]All I can say is, Mr Roberts must be far more wealthy than I anticipated :shock:

Unfortunately he is not, your suspicions are correct.

[Reggie Bishop]

You guys better save your money for that A1 trap gun coming up. It checks off everything on your list.

[Stan Hoover]

You guys better save your money for that A1 trap gun coming up. It checks off everything on your list.

I usually stay clear of the BIG BOYS DEPARTMENT :duck:

Looks like an interesting Parker, it will be fun to be in the spectator section :corn:

[Randy G Roberts]

The wife and I stopped off in Sedona for some warmer weather and hiking before the Vegas show. Don't believe everything you hear about global warming.:eek:

[Stan Hoover]

We will be departing in a few short hours for Vegas, I checked the tempatures in Vegas this morning it was showing 25 degrees.

Not exactly what I was expecting, but better than 0 degrees which we're seeing here in PA

[Daryl Corona]

Have a safe trip. It's a balmy 7* here.:banghead::banghead:

[Garry L Gordon]

Have a safe trip. It's a balmy 7* here.:banghead::banghead:

Minus 12 here. Vegas at 25 seems balmy. I hope they have some hot deals for Randy and Stan.

[Stan Hillis]

We're getting snow down he'ah! Just enough so far to claim it. Glad we're getting it, for my 6 yr. old granddaughter's sake. Actually, the last time I tried to fly to Vegas for the Beinfield show I got snowed in! Can you believe that? I had to catch a flight in Charlotte to make it and sat in the airport in Augusta almost all day waiting. Finally pulled the plug on it about 4:30 pm and called Queen and asked her to save me a bowl of soup for supper.

[Steve Cambria]

131049

So are we to assume the only thing "HOT" out in Vegas was Bobby Flay's ghost pepper chili???

[Randy G Roberts]

131049

So are we to assume the only thing "HOT" out in Vegas was Bobby Flay's ghost pepper chili???

Depends on what you seek I suppose. This show should have been called the Win. M-21 show in terms of American doubles. Not much to see in the way of other American manufacturers. Can't say for sure how many Parkers were present but if were betting over/under 20 I would take the under. Puglisi was not present, had they been their Parkers would have outnumbered the remainder of the show.

The highest grade hammer gun present was a Grade 5 with 32" Damascus barrels on a 4 frame, 10 bore. The breech face had been machined out which the owner said was factory work in his opinion us supported by a DGL article. It had a replacement forend and was refinished.

The highest grade hammerless present was a BHE, SG, SFE, AE (Disabled), 12 gauge with 30" barrels. This was a DTM refinish in 2003. Nice looking gun.

There may have been other higher grade Parkers but I am doubtful as I walked the floor from Wed. evening setup thru Friday at noon and talked to a lot of folks. Stan put on some floor miles as well. Never saw a single 410, not even an upcoming auction presentation and Lordy were the auction houses ever represented. Some of these folks were new names to me. I did see one 28 gauge, a 28" VH with nothing remarkable about it.

I will post a few pics of a few guns I saw. One I did not get a picture of was a Grade 3 Hammer 10 with 32" Damascus tubes on a dealers table. It was a restock with chambers lengthened to the point of almost erasing the forcing cones. Asking price was a home run, for the dealer that is.

There was 1 Parker hammer gun that made its way into the ownership of a member. I will leave any comments on that one up to the new owner should he choose to share some details.

[Randy G Roberts]

Note the machined face, supposedly to accommodate brass shells per the present custodian. New forend stamped Phenix.

[Randy G Roberts]

Note the dead pigeon engraving, kind of cool. Pics probably make this one look a lot stronger than reality. A neat gun none the less.

[Randy G Roberts]

Coming up for auction. Don't get excited, barrels had been cut and it was off face. Never looked at it much after the tape measure came out.

[Randy G Roberts]

Custom gun, asking 25K but open for offers as so I was told.

[Randy G Roberts]

And lastly for the Ithaca and SBT aficionados. This one had 2 barrels with it which I never really looked over. I told Stan about this one, he might be able to opine on originality about it if he looked at it, not sure if he did or not :corn:

[Garry L Gordon]

Great report, Randy! Thanks for the photos.

I hope we get to see the one that the unnamed member purchased.:corn: He has pretty good taste...or, hmmm...maybe it's not him(?):)

[Stan Hoover]

Great report Randy!

There was a few Parkers, nothing real real exciting. The early lifter with the pigeon and pigeon shooter was intriguing.

There was a few Ithaca shotguns. I could count on 1 hand the amount of Ithaca doubles, even less Fox shotguns.
The 7E Knick was interesting, although I would question the originality of the finishes.

There will be a Grade 4 Lifter arriving in PA later this week possibly, it was for sale for a good while and I was able to strike a deal after some help by Randy on the inspection.
A grade 4 12 with Parker Laminated barrels, hence my interest, I will post some pictures on arrival.

I was fortunate to meet Terry Buffum, (hope my spelling is correct), he is as I understand a Lefever collector from Oregon.

Stan

[Bill Murphy]

I like the B grade lifter a lot and would like to see more of it. I would be glad to make 25 thick base shells for the drilled out breech face. The Ithaca Knick has a blued receiver, so I guess "refinished" is a good bet.

[Stan Hoover]

A hasty photo of a Vegas acquisition, letters as a $175 Grade

[Daryl Corona]

Wow. 12 or 10?

[Stan Hoover]

Wow. 12 or 10?

This a 30” 12,

unfortunately it does not have matching hammers, so I will be posting photos of each hammer in hopes that I can find a matching hammer.

[Dean Romig]

I think I recognize that C grade with Parker-made Laminated Steel barrels as having been sold by Robin Lewis to Charlie Herzog…. Beautiful Parker in any case!

Congratulations!





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[Dean Weber]

Not many grade 4 lifters with laminated barrels. I did some research at one point I will post when I get a chance. Here is another that looks like a twin.

[Garry L Gordon]

I’m getting a bad case of lifter envy (that is a thing, right?:))

[Dean Weber]

Here is my info in case it is helpful. Serialization book shows 5 laminated Grade 4 lifters.

11413 12g 28"
13827 12g 28"
14313 12g 30"
14680 12G 30"
17421 16g 28"

If you own the 16 gauge, give me a call! :)

[Stan Hoover]

Dean R,

This one I picked up from a dealer in Texas, not sure where it was before.

Dean W,

That sure does look like a twin, Wow! This is 11102, are we close in terms of serial number? I will be looking to you to see how the hammers compare. I guess when I pull them, it will be pretty easy to tell which if any is original to the gun by the serial number.

Gary, Lifter Envy is easily remedied, just keep your eyes open:)

[Dean Weber]

Stan,
Mine is 11413. Love the L4’s! Nice find.

[Stan Hoover]

So it appears my right hammer is from a D3, looks to have more engraving than the hammer original to this gun.
Finding a right hammer for a Grade 4 is probably pretty near impossible?? And then being the same engraving ?
Maybe someone here owns serial #13939, that would crazy?

[Daryl Corona]

Good luck with that Stan. Maybe someone could rework the hammer to match

[Brian Dudley]

I have seen hammers mixed up at the factory on guns that went down the line together, but these numbers are pretty far apart. .

[CraigThompson]

A hasty photo of a Vegas acquisition, letters as a $175 Grade

Stan what’s the one above it in the picture ? Looks like a Remington possibly ?

[Stan Hoover]

Stan what’s the one above it in the picture ? Looks like a Remington possibly ?

Craig,
that gun is somewhat of a mystery, hoping to find someone who can tell me more about the gun.
It is a 10 gauge and the only markings are on the top rib, Lancaster Arms, Lancaster PA.

Lancaster Arms was the company formed by Alfred Harvey Worrest who patented the Infallible Single Trigger in the early 1900's. I have not found any evidence that he produced any firearms, I will post better pictures so hopefully someone can give clues as to who produced the gun. It has rather extensive engraving and is in great condition.
My interest was sparked because of my home being close to Lancaster.

Stan

[Dean Romig]

So it appears my right hammer is from a D3, looks to have more engraving than the hammer original to this gun.
Finding a right hammer for a Grade 4 is probably pretty near impossible?? And then being the same engraving ?
Maybe someone here owns serial #13939, that would crazy?


The good thing is when they’re both mounted on the gun you can’t see the slight difference between them.





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[Stan Hoover]

[QUOTE=Dean Romig;424732]The good thing is when they’re both mounted on the gun you can’t see the slight difference between them.

Good point Dean,
the engraving on the side is not noticeable at that point, but the different height of the hammers is obvious and the engraving on the area of the hammer where your thumb lands when cocking is of different size.

[Dean Romig]

Note the machined face, supposedly to accommodate brass shells per the present custodian. New forend stamped Phenix.


Phoenix was the stocker.

[Dean Romig]

Note the machined face, supposedly to accommodate brass shells per the present custodian. New forend stamped Phenix.


Randy, did you get the serial number on this gun? I have only ever seen one other Parker with these recessed breech faces… could even be the same gun.





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[Dean Romig]

Note the dead pigeon engraving, kind of cool. Pics probably make this one look a lot stronger than reality. A neat gun none the less.


I’ve seen that dead pigeon gun before but I don’t remember who the custodian was at that time.





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[Dean Romig]

I’m getting a bad case of lifter envy (that is a thing, right?:))

Yup, it’s a thing. I’ve owned several Lifters. I have no idea what made Parker Bros. think the top action was some kind of improvement… the Lifter action is so much more ergonomically designed and more simple to use.






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[Randy G Roberts]

Randy, did you get the serial number on this gun? I have only ever seen one other Parker with these recessed breech faces… could even be the same gun.
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Dean, it was # 11126. This gun along with the pin lifter have been with the same owner under wraps on the west coast for probably 30 years or more as I understand it.

[Randy G Roberts]

Phoenix was the stocker.

I have seen that name somewhere, likely in TPS. It's actually spelled Phenix if you zoom and has what appears to be a J in front of it?

[Dean Romig]

Thanks Randy. So it’s apparantly not the same one and is only the second one I have known about.





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[Randy G Roberts]

Thanks Randy. So it’s apparantly not the same one and is only the second one I have known about.
.

The Gent was adamant that this was factory work and as I believe I stated earlier he alluded to a DGJ article that would support this. I have not taken the time to look for it. I found it odd that the recesses were not uniform in depth. If you look closely you can see that the bottom of the recess (nearest the water table) is deeper that the top. It's actually quite noticeable with the gun in hand and is the same on both. This made me suspicious but then again we do tend to pick things apart when viewing for originality, myself included.

[Dean Romig]

The angle between the water table and the breech face on Parkers is not 90 degrees. This may account for the uneven cutting of the breech face recess.

This in itself gives me a certain doubt of it being PB factory work. PB, knowing the angle was not a perfect 90 would have taken this into account when machining the recesses.





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[edgarspencer]

I agree with Dean, that it is very unlikely Parker Brothers work. Had it been, and there was a logical reason, it would have been more common. The reason was likely to chamber and shoot cartridges which had a thick rim, but altering the gun would have made for an unsafe headspacing if one was to go back to thin rims. What makes me go hmm, is why did they rebate the standing breech, and not simply deepen the rim groove in the barrels? The breech face would then still be perpendicular to the bore, and not a calculated machining angle. The reason the breech face is not a 90 degree perpendicular angle is simple, when you think about it. If it were 90 degrees, the bottom edge of the barrels would strike the breech face in closing.

[Randy G Roberts]

Edgar, I will read the remainder of your post after I recover from the first four words where you stated and I quote, "I agree with Dean". That has to be a first. Would you like to edit that before others see it, feeling alright?? :rotf:

[edgarspencer]

Edgar, I will read the remainder of your post after I recover from the first four words where you stated and I quote, "I agree with Dean". That has to be a first. Would you like to edit that before others see it, feeling alright?? :rotf:

Randy, it's like Haley's Comet. It comes around every 76 years, and since Dean just celebrated his 77th Birthday, and I know I agreed with him a few years ago, I figured I'd get it out of the way early. I do feel much better now that I know I can look forward to the next 76 years worry free.

[Randy G Roberts]

Randy, it's like Haley's Comet. It comes around every 76 years, and since Dean just celebrated his 77th Birthday, and I know I agreed with him a few years ago, I figured I'd get it out of the way early. I do feel much better now that I know I can look forward to the next 76 years worry free.

Hell, I'm just glad you're alright. That sorta talk had me worried. Hope Dean's handling it alright. He's probably down, overcome with emotion. :)

[Stan Hoover]

Pictures of right side, and a few others.

[Stan Hoover]

#1 Dean, does this checkering match the checkering on your L4?
#2 The lone #5, did the barrels weigh an even 5 lbs? Or what does the 4 represent, grade possibly?
#3The gun now wears sling attachments, letter does not mention them and I’m not a fan of them. Just making sure this piece wouldn’t be original, or can someone show me an original?

[Dean Weber]

Stan, here are some pics for comparison. I think the checkering is similar. Can’t see your ball grip face for comparison. My gun has a 4 on the barrel flats which I presume to be grade due to its location and cuz barrels weigh more than 4 finished. Mine does not show a pre-finished weight. I suspect your 5 IS the pre-finished weight of your gun.

[Stan Hoover]

Thanks for the excellent pictures there Dean!

I believe the checkering is very similar, I love the ball grips, I will post pics of mine later.

I believe you're correct on the barrel flat markings. Do we know what the small o signifies in front of the 2 (frame size) on the barrel lug?

Does your frame water table have any markings regarding quality/grade?? Mine does not, and most if not all areas where the serial # is stamped, the 0 is very faint.

Stan

PS. Any comments on the sling attachment, I assume this is post manufacturing??

[Stan Hoover]

A few more.

[Dean Romig]

Looks like 11102





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[Randy G Roberts]

Stan, earlier in the thread you had inquired about the swivels being original. I searched the forum under "swivels" and found a thread (link below) that has pics of a factory lettered set of swivels. They are held in place via screws.

https://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=24154&highlight=swivels

[edgarspencer]

These are Winchester sling hooks, but probably the type used on your gun, Stan.

[Dean Romig]

The numeral 4 on the right barrel flat is most definitely the grade stamp.





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[Stan Hoover]

Stan, earlier in the thread you had inquired about the swivels being original. I searched the forum under "swivels" and found a thread (link below) that has pics of a factory lettered set of swivels. They are held in place via screws.

https://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=24154&highlight=swivels

Thank you for the help gentlemen!

Thanks for the link Randy, I thank you for thinking of the Search option :rolleyes:

I will try to remember that the next time before asking. As you can see, mine has no screws, so I’m assuming it may be held in place by solder??

The rear swivel, is quite large. I can’t hardly think of letting these swivel’s attached, but maybe I’ll leave the forward swivel attached for the time:whistle:

[Dean Weber]

Stan,
Posting a picture of water table. Just the SN, too early for grade stamp. On the 0 stamp near the frame size stamp on lug, I am not aware of any documentation of its meaning on the forum or in TPS.