Scouting for covers

[Alex Brushwein]

A question for you all with more years of age and experience, as well as a longer list of favorite grouse covers than myself:

In the process of scouting potential new covers for birds before an upcoming season, how soon is too soon to determine whether or not said spot will be holding birds come opening?

During turkey scouting in the spring, I was fortunate enough to overhear some grouse drumming along in the morning sun and even flushed a couple along the way. That being said, it’s impossible to be everywhere throughout the spring, and since that time of year has passed, I’m curious to hear some thoughts on this.

Thanks!

[Harold Lee Pickens]

If the birds were there in the spring, should be there in the fall. Hunt similar looking covers. Good luck!

[Zacharysmith]

Grouse have small home ranges but will move if food is not there. Early season feed will be different than November feed generally. Habitat is what I tend to look for. Just looking to see if the cover looks right. That young growth mixed woods get me all warm and fuzzy inside. See you in the Maine woods!

[Alex Brushwein]

Grouse have small home ranges but will move if food is not there. Early season feed will be different than November feed generally. Habitat is what I tend to look for. Just looking to see if the cover looks right. That young growth mixed woods get me all warm and fuzzy inside. See you in the Maine woods!

How do you feel about logging cuts / tote roads vs overgrown / abandoned farms & apple orchards? Assuming both satisfy the conditions described above. Thanks for the input!

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Alex, those areas you just listed are the key to finding grouse. Grouse are birds of the "edges" so be sure and check out that type of cover, especially old logging roads thru appropriate cover.
I've been hunting grouse across the country for 55 years now, never been to Maine, but am sure it holds true there.
One of the greatest scouting tools is the internet with Google Earth, OnX maps, etc. once you know what good cover looks like, look at the satellite photos of the area, and search for similar looking cover, old logging rds, clear-cuts, etc. I still do this extensively and find many wonderful covers each year, rarely is a cover a complete bust. Best of luck to you, the morning is cool, so off to run the setters in the hayfields and get them in shape, season will be here before you know it.

[Frank Srebro]

IMO nothing is better than old time scouting on foot beginning a few weeks before the season for food sources that are local to your area. Logging roads, old RR beds, power and gas line cuts and even deer trails are easier going and you're looking for the combo of edge cover, food and nearby water whether a small creek, spring seep, wet areas, etc.

Two "Silvertails" here - unusual for this part of PA. :)

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[Alex Brushwein]

Earlier this summer, I came across an old Maine Department of Agriculture pamphlet titled "Adventures with Maine Apples", dated 1960. The second edition (published sometime thereafter) added a directory of farms and orchards along with a map and directions which was not present in the original publication. These directions, of course, pre-date modern GPS and read more like clues for a treasure map... no addresses are listed.

I've taken as a side-project to bringing the list up to the modern day for the purpose of finding out which orchards survived the test of time and which did not. Hunting logging cuts in the north woods is very popular here in ME, but I figured it would be fun to try hunting some of the abandoned farms and orchards with their stone walls and apple trees that seemed ever popular in the old grouse hunting stories of New England we've all read. I know that as the years pass these covers are becoming few and far between. Hopefully I'll have some luck with this endeavor come October.

[bob lyons]

These would be my suggestions not in any order
- join the ruffle grouse society RGS and get involved you will meet a lot of people with similar interests. They will help you identify likely covers in your area.
- get a dog, pointer or flusher but it must be trained. A poorly trained dog will have you lose interest quickly
- I hunted partridge, woodcock, pheasants and rabbits from the early 60’s thru the early 90’s actively. Hunted every day possible from October till February. I was lucky enough to have 3 very good dogs in that time. I hunted In Mass, Maine and NH .
-read all the grouse hunting books you can find. Then read them again.
- attend some Feild trails see what good dogs are all about
- during my most successful years I would hunt in the mornings and look for new spots in the afternoon. Drove a lot of miles. But it paid off.
- I would always have a supply of apple cider in the truck and when asking permission to hunt an area or farm it would break the ice. Many times I was shut out but I often got permission. Many times just checking in the people opened up other areas. Always be very thankful to the people that let you hunt there property.
- keep a journal of every day you hunt and a map book with you spots located I learned this after years of hunting. It saved many hours and miles of driving.
- never take more than 2 grouse from any one cover. You can over hunt them and they don’t come back. This does not apply to wood cock
- in Maine forested land is a very good 5 to 7 years after they have been cut. As some one mentioned there is an app that shows these areas pretty well.
- my history’s showed me that I would flush or point one bird about every 45 minutes of hunting. So if an area did not meet close to this criteria I would move on.
- most of the loss of coverts are related to development and to a lesser degree over hunting. Also in Maine when the forest get’s too mature partridge move out.
- woodcock however return to the same places for quite a few years
- wood cock need soft earth swamp edges drainage paths and alder runs.
- oddly enough cemetery and abandoned apples orchards where always good for me.
This whole thing if you really want it is a lot of work for partridge. If you cannot devote all the time that is needed . Hire a guide and just get some hunting in.
At this stage of the game for me I hire guides that do all the hard work and just go out for a few days each year, not the same but still very good.
Good luck
Bob

[Kevin McCormack]

Never underestimate the productivity of public hunting areas and in particular the attraction of the locals to specific game there. In 46 years of hunting grouse on public lands in the same state park area, we never saw another grouse hunter nor signs indicating anyone remotely interested in hunting them (e.g., no dog crates in parked trucks on the logging roads, no sounds of beeper collars or other dog-related commotion in the woods). We frequently saw deer and turkey hunters but no other bird hunters. (There were few if any woodcock on these particular lands). Locals quizzed about it said they considered deer and turkeys "real trophies", and "didn't have time" to fool with grouse.

[Zacharysmith]

How do you feel about logging cuts / tote roads vs overgrown / abandoned farms & apple orchards? Assuming both satisfy the conditions described above. Thanks for the input!

There is nothing more nostalgic than hunting an overgrown apple orchard. I have many memories of hunts there myself. They tend to hold Woodcock well also. If one is lucky enough to find one that gets seldom hunted or never it is a lifetime treasure. Unfortunately, they tend to get hunted regularly. Some are to overgrow to hunt sometimes. I say to overgrown I mean difficult or impossible to fire at game. I try to stay out and away of those places as I have learned over the years.

Cuts should not see the pressure that orchards or trails get though I tend to believe that grouse are attracted to roads. They are curious, love to warm up in them in the morning and will eats stones in them for their crop's digestion. I tend to look for cuts that have skidder trails every 10-20 yards between. Picture a log landing with fingers outward. Like a human hand. Great for shooting lanes while letting the dogs work the cover. A point between those lanes and a hunter on either side makes a fun time.

[Andrew Sacco]

I put a lot of birds up on public land that is hunted by other bird hunters. You never know if you're there at the right time or not. I put a lot of miles on that others just aren't willing to do. That being said, we hunted an entire day in Maine a few years ago in the most picturesque part of the area near Rangeley Lakes and it was idyllic. Young aspen, some apple, creeks, conifers, beech nuts everywhere. Not one grouse or woodcock. We drove around too, but limited ourselves to within several square miles which wasn't likely far enough to really find the birds. Back at Grants one of the guides said, "Oh that hasn't held a grouse in years. They prefer across the lower road down low not up high lately." When asked he said there is simply more preferable cover nearby but we never quite figured out what was wrong. Some places hold, some don't. I notice that I put up a lot of grouse in early season and once the broods break up it's much harder. And the places that still look amazing today hold nothing compared to 4-5 years ago when they really produced. There was a saying that was for chukar hunters but it also applies to grouse hunters, "My, you have big thighs and a small head, you must be a grouse hunter."

[bob lyons]

We hunted a grants for 3 years and it was great but only because we hired guides that knew what they were doing.
That area attracts a lot of bird hunters so the birds get taken and pushed out quickly.
Also the area is vast.
In other areas like the coast, Brunswick and the Belfast area there is less hunting pressure but it does not have the amount of foresting like in Rangley but very productive.
Also tremendous amount of road hunters in the Rangeley area.
The opening the season earlier in Maine has not help either it just adds to the road hunters and bear hunters killing time.
We now hunt the same area but do not stay at grants, but we use the same guide. We now also avoid Saturday hunting as their are to many people in the woods.

[Frank Srebro]

Just talking here about grouse hunting in the large expanses of state woods here in northeast PA. That's where I've chased grouse for decades. I'm convinced that the birds have gotten smarter since I started hunting as a pre-teen, likely due to predators and hunters killing the dumber ones and the resulting effect on the gene pool. For sure ..... food, water and cover are the primary habitat considerations but given the choice between those factors close to the road or the same farther back in, and if you're physically able, you'll find more birds while hunting in our big woods farther away from the travelled roadways. Whether it’s the traffic noise, new instincts or whatever, the birds seem to be especially scarce and wary close to the roads even though the edge cover looks good. Now, I don't know if all this applies elsewhere but its something to think about.