Steel variation

[Breck Gorman]

Here is a pattern on a Parker that seems to have two different types of steel, and colors differently when refinished. I’ve seen this on other barrels, but this on was really pronounced
My theory (and I would love to hear others) is that the riband was composed of three different billet metals:
1 a high carbon steel that reacts with oxidation and logwood to color black
2 a low carbon steel that doesn’t react as strongly and colors grey
2 very low carbon and corrosion resistant wrought iron that colors white.

If this sort of thing fascinates me, does that make me eccentric?

[Aaron Beck]

There existed many variations in iron composition both in terms of content and carbon depending on the ore and or smelting process. I think your guess is a good one. There was also carburized iron which was variously referred to as shear steel or blister steel. The iron would spark but would still pickle to show grain structure. I made some iron/blister steel damascus but couldnt get good contrast. At the time, I thought it because i was doing something wrong but later decided it was that the two materials had very similar (too similar) composition. You also could have a situation where a bar was over worked and you had carbon migration for steel to iron which would effectively make blister steel as part of the welding process.

[Drew Hause]

Thanks for alerting me to this thread Bruce.
I'm working on enhancing the images and figuring out the scrolls (Steve Culver hates that description but Dr. Gaddy used it so I'm in good company ;) ), the rod to rod 'zipper' welds, and the straighter ribband edge welds.

I'm afraid there was no descriptive name for that pattern other than 'it's a bit of a mess' :)
The twisting of the rods after they were machine rolled & welded determines the size and symmetry of the scrolls, and the hammer welding of the twisted rods and then the ribband edges also contributes to the appearance and symmetry of the scrolls. I'm afraid the fella was having a bad day.
The be fair to Parker Bros. the 'rough forged tubes' were paired at the tube maker's, then wired together and shipped about 50 in a barrel. And the pattern is very difficult to discern rough forged.

I am of the opinion, but could be wrong, that the rough forged tubes Parker used for Lifters were primarily sourced in England based on a few examples still with Birmingham provisional proof marks, and top lever guns had tubes almost exclusively from Belgium, which IMHO were aesthetically more pleasing, but not stronger.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CGAF5f-J0-Foww572KvNYb0xSS1nBasWgHYvzD18i3c/edit

More than anyone probably wants to know here about the iron and steel used for pattern welded barrels, and as Aaron said there was a great deal of variation; over time, the iron, charcoal or coke sources, and the forging technique
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1V-qkkHrs7yJakMkakxkiMx8FzJjGXUg0EDm8-_AQPiA/edit

IN GENERAL the iron was wrought iron and the steel low carbon.

IN GENERAL with coloring the iron remained silver/white and the steel blue/black, but that is complicated also. Lots of information here, with helpful comments by Steve Culver
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EGInyr3CsRadXkmTYRak4TWK-pCB3cN5Wgg51u_SnEM/edit

I'll be back, hopefully with some visual aids :)

[Bruce P Bruner]

To add context, the subject barrel set is from my #3 Frame 1880 Parker $85 Grade 10 gauge Lifter, 30” barrels and about 10-1/2 pounds.
Breck reported the following:
“MWT= 44 thousandths 6” from right muzzle. Vast majority of the tubes are over 50 thousandths. Plenty thick.”
When I saw the photos I remarked to Breck that the barrel craftsman needed to check himself into rehab and the Parker workman needed glasses when he matched the barrels.
Thank you Dr Drew for your assistance.

[Aaron Beck]

"two apprentice crolle"

[Drew Hause]

This is one segment.

I think the red marks at the bottom indicate the ribband edge welds, and the blue the 3 'scrolls' between the squished scrolls at the ribband edges which were 'jumped' or edge to edge butt welded - so it would be a 4 Iron crolle.

The 'smudged' areas within the white indicate IMHO decarburization - excessive heating of the metal causing loss of carbon and therefore lack of contrast with staining

https://photos.smugmug.com/Damascus/Defects/i-DpSXTKc/0/c1744950/L/1880%20Quality%202%20Lifter%20decarburization-L.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/Damascus/Defects/i-DpSXTKc/A)

The white arrows indicate decarburization lines. Another example - Parker 6 Iron "Turkish"

https://photos.smugmug.com/Damascus/Defects/i-cmGbfQK/0/d62b5a92/M/Decarburization%202-M.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/Damascus/Defects/i-cmGbfQK/A)

[Drew Hause]

A much more aesthetically pleasing segment with more symmetric scrolls.
The red marks indicate the ribband edge welds - note how straight the weld at the red arrow is.

I think the white is a decarburization line

https://photos.smugmug.com/Damascus/Defects/i-TMJMpm4/0/97cebec6/L/Decarburization%203-L.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/Damascus/Defects/i-TMJMpm4/A)

Clearly one of the steel alternees stained much more darkly and one can only assume a much higher carbon strip of steel was 'stacked' into 'lopin'.
Hard to count but I think the 'lopin' had 6 steel and 6 iron alternees.

[Drew Hause]

This is a mess. Mismatched tube segments again with decarburization.
The big 'stars' I think were related to 'inexpert' twisting of the rods

https://photos.smugmug.com/Damascus/Defects/i-zL8FVc7/0/84857bb8/XL/IMG_4308%20%281%29-XL.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/Damascus/Defects/i-zL8FVc7/A)

[Bruce P Bruner]

[QUOTE=Drew Hause;387611]This is a mess. Mismatched tube segments again with decarburization.
The big 'stars' I think were related to 'inexpert' twisting of the rods

The “big stars” are what I normally see in Crolle patterns. An aestheticly pleasing pattern in my opinion.

[Drew Hause]

This is what Parker 4 Iron "Turkish Star" is suppose to look like :)
Symmetric and alternating black (steel) and white (iron) stars between the scrolls

https://photos.smugmug.com/Damascus/Parker/i-9KfNHnN/0/faa0b38a/L/Turk%2011%204%20Iron%20StarTurkish-L.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/Damascus/Parker/i-9KfNHnN/A)

[Bruce P Bruner]

Perhaps the star segment of the riband was the only one that they got right.

[Aaron Beck]

Ive wondered if the ribands were actually manufactured in a different industrial setting. Rolling mill comes to mind, I know the movie shows the guys doing the whole thing start to finish but still hard to fathom. Is there any indication of this?

[Drew Hause]

Interesting question Aaron.

Descriptions of the tube making process from the early 1800s did not mention machine welding until this, toward the end of the damascus production era
The Hardware Reporter, May 9, 1913
https://books.google.com/books?id=15s7AQAAMAAJ&pg
“Process of Making a Good Shotgun - Barrel Depends Upon Materials Used and Method of Forming lt - Steel and Iron Combined.”
Two of these ribbons (rods) are required to form a single barrel, the one for the breech being somewhat thicker than the one for the muzzle. These ribbons are twisted into a spiral, this twisting being done cold unless very heavy barrels are desired.
The metal coils are next heated, a steel mandrel is inserted and the coil is welded by hammering. The two coils are next welded together, the breech section being about six inches long. Then comes more hammering until the metal is cold, and the barrel, is complete except for the finishing.
There are shops in Belgium where the method just described is followed, but in which machines are utilized for twisting and hammering and where no steel whatever is used, the Damascus effect being attained by using two grades of iron. Such barrels are naturally more apt to contain flaws than a handworked product, and an all iron barrel is not sufficiently strong to withstand safely the explosion of the powders now generally used.

The 1891 Birmingham Proof House Test report listed many of the damascus barrels as "machine forged" but there was no explanation of what that meant
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cvqRzkg0wEjhAAcFWr8gFi7aPFRsSIJ_hahfDxmrNAU/edit

More here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oPd3fOeToSHZwCaahXNIyV3sGVqow_Z_ENO8Fnk7kTQ/edit

[Aaron Beck]

Thats a great starting point, thanks. I can see a twisting machine too but generally feel like the hand welding of the spiral welds is likely the best way, but for this process only. Generating many miles of thin bars in iron is a chore without rolling. Especially since uniformity is paramount, even the best hammering isnt completely uniform. If you add the dissimilar metals, the tendency of iron to delaminate and the rapid cooling of long thin sections, I again wonder if rolling was common as a means of generating the raw material for the barrel welders.
Here is a link, lots about rolling mills but no mention of damascus.
modern damascus makers use rolling mills and the technology was available during the breachloading shotgun era.

https://www.ispatguru.com/historical-development-of-rolling-mills/#:~:text=The%20first%20known%20design%20of,axes%20 to%20modify%20its%20thickness.

[Drew Hause]

Thanks Aaron.

Interesting Patent n°223432 of "Monsieur Florent Heuse-Bovy" for: a process and device mechanically carrying out the synchronic torsion of metals.
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20h/a%20heuse%20riga%20gb.htm

[Bruce P Bruner]

These barrels may have been somewhat harshly criticized for their unique and unusual characteristics but I am very satisfied with Breck’s laborious work and will certainly enjoy shooting this extraordinary vintage Parker. 143 years old and still burning charcoal.

[Drew Hause]

Every barrel evaluation is an opportunity to learn, which I for one appreciate, and the 'messy' pattern with inconsistent coloring in no way reflects on Breck's refinishing expertise.

[Phillip Carr]

Good morning Breck. I have sent you a PM.
Thanks Phil

[Mark Garrett]

Hi Breck, I sent you a pm also.