Two old guys, two old 10 Bores, 10 birds in the boat

[Pete Lester]

Scott K. and I got out together this afternoon for a blue bird day hunt on the salt water. Scott was shooting a Parker NH and I was shooting a newly acquired Harrington & Richardson D grade. I almost had to force myself to go because it has been so slow. It turned out we had a great day in what up to now has been a somewhat lack luster season. It was getting dark when we got back to the boat ramp so my picture is not ideal. The H&R is on the left, the Parker NH on the right with a pile of four geese and six ducks in the boat, a mix of Mallards and Blacks. We each needed one more Black and several times birds came cupping right in but try as we might we couldn't wish Mallards into being Blacks and shoot another.

[Daryl Corona]

Mighty fine shootin' boys.:bowdown:

[Milton C Starr]

I have to give a thumbs up for the NH 10 in itself, I seen one of those H&Rs a few months ago in pretty decent shape but sold before I could grab it.

[Russell E. Cleary]

Great story of a special day. You under-rate that photo; as still-life hunting art it approaches the sublime.

Who was the builder of that classic-looking duck-boat?

[Pete Lester]

I have to give a thumbs up for the NH 10 in itself, I seen one of those H&Rs a few months ago in pretty decent shape but sold before I could grab it.

Did you see it at the Vintage Cup? That is where I picked it up.

[Pete Lester]

Great story of a special day. You under-rate that photo; as still-life hunting art it approaches the sublime.

Who was the builder of that classic-looking duck-boat?

You mean a 1974 12 foot aluminum v-hull by Mirrocraft is a classic? :)

[Russell E. Cleary]

You mean a 1974 12 foot aluminum v-hull by Mirrocraft is a classic? :)

Well, it is now.

[Milton C Starr]

Did you see it at the Vintage Cup? That is where I picked it up.

It was under the collectible guns category on GB guy wanted $1200 looked like a good buy. Weren't they built by H&R under the supervision of Westley Richard's? I didn't realize until recently WR were still building A&D actions

[Pete Lester]

Well, it is now.

Sure is, so were the two guys that were in it. :rotf:

[Pete Lester]

It was under the collectible guns category on GB guy wanted $1200 looked like a good buy. Weren't they built by H&R under the supervision of Westley Richard's? I didn't realize until recently WR were still building A&D actions

Yes from little I know WR granted a license to use the A&D hammerless design and build the guns in the Worcester MA H&R factory. It's believed that it took two years to set up the factory for the production which started circa 1883 and that Mr. Anson and Mr. Deeley were there to supervise/train. It's thought production lasted two years or little more and only 2500 to 3000 guns in 10 and 12 gauge were produced in four grades, A-D. They are not what you would expect from H&R, they are a fine gun and probably the first self cocking hammerless double built in the US. There are others on the board who know more than I, a lot of what I know about them came from the book, "Birth of the Boxlock".

[scott kittredge]

I have to give a thumbs up for the NH 10 in itself, I seen one of those H&Rs a few months ago in pretty decent shape but sold before I could grab it.

When we were waiting for ducks to show up i was tellIng Pete , " if was going to order my new 10 ga. In 1889 this gun is what i would have ordered " lop 13 3/4, dac 1 5/8 ths, dah 2 5/8 ths. On a straight grip stock. Choke F/F .037 in both 32 inch barrels on a 3 frame at 9 lbs.
Scott

[Milton C Starr]

Yes from little I know WR granted a license to use the A&D hammerless design and build the guns in the Worcester MA H&R factory. It's believed that it took two years to set up the factory for the production which started circa 1883 and that Mr. Anson and Mr. Deeley were there to supervise/train. It's thought production lasted two years or little more and only 2500 to 3000 guns in 10 and 12 gauge were produced in four grades, A-D. They are not what you would expect from H&R, they are a fine gun and probably the first self cocking hammerless double built in the US. There are others on the board who know more than I, a lot of what I know about them came from the book, "Birth of the Boxlock".

I remember reading a detailed thread about them on here years ago but dont remember much of it. I would think it was probably expensive build here in the US, I read Colt ran into a similar problem with their 1883 producing about 6000 of them.

[Milton C Starr]

When we were waiting for ducks to show up i was tellIng Pete , " if was going to order my new 10 ga. In 1889 this gun is what i would have ordered " lop 13 3/4, dac 1 5/8 ths, dah 2 5/8 ths. On a straight grip stock. Choke F/F .037 in both 32 inch barrels on a 3 frame at 9 lbs.
Scott

I think 9lbs or so is probably the sweet spot for a 10 ga I have a grade 2 that is 9.5lbs and a NH that is just shy of 13lbs and honestly the weight difference doesnt affect recoil all that much with 1 1/4oz loads. I havnt seen many straight stock Parker 10s.

[charlie cleveland]

that 13 lb 10 ga sounds like my kinda gun....I bet if you were shooting real heavy loads you could tell the difference in the 2 guns...charlie

[Pete Lester]

I don't think I can remember ever feeling a gun recoil when I was shooting at a bird. I doubt most people do but I do know one guy who shot at a goose with two factory 3 1/2 inch 10 ga loads of Bismuth out of an Ithaca NID and the recoil knocked him over. Do you remember that day Bill Janelle? :rotf:

[scott kittredge]

I don't think I can remember ever feeling a gun recoil when I was shooting at a bird. I doubt most people do but I do know one guy who shot at a goose with two factory 3 1/2 inch 10 ga loads of Bismuth out of an Ithaca NID and the recoil knocked him over. Remember that day Bill Janelle :rotf:
Yha, but remember the 3rd shot ? The 3 1/2 inch shell paid off than.
What hunting stories we could tell about each other over the last 45 years :eek:
Scott

[Pete Lester]

Yha, but remember the 3rd shot ? The 3 1/2 inch shell paid off than.
What hunting stories we could tell about each other over the last 45 years :eek:
Scott

Yup about 70 yards and both him and goose fell. LOL.

[Milton C Starr]

I don't think I can remember ever feeling a gun recoil when I was shooting at a bird. I doubt most people do but I do know one guy who shot at a goose with two factory 3 1/2 inch 10 ga loads of Bismuth out of an Ithaca NID and the recoil knocked him over. Do you remember that day Bill Janelle? :rotf:

I seen someone selling some of those loads recently on GI. Currently all my 10 gauges are 2 7/8"s guns. I have shot one 3oz 10 gauge load before and in a 9lb single barrel never again. I think at that point it may be time to step up to a 4 bore haha. I took my NH 10 ga to the range today to test some handloads I think it has some nice figure in the wood especially when the sunlight hits it.

[Gene Danielson]

Would you be willing to share info on your loads? I'm trying to get effective bismuth loads working in an NID Super 10. Have been using the DGJ Sherman Bell 4756 recipes and ignition is erratic in colder weather (30-40 deg F.) Have weighed powder/shot each load and feel confident on that issue. Powder and primers (WW209) work fine in other loads at same temps (lead target) so believe they are ok. Any insights would be appreciated.

Thanks

[scott kittredge]

Would you be willing to share info on your loads? I'm trying to get effective bismuth loads working in an NID Super 10. Have been using the DGJ Sherman Bell 4756 recipes and ignition is erratic in colder weather (30-40 deg F.) Have weighed powder/shot each load and feel confident on that issue. Powder and primers (WW209) work fine in other loads at same temps (lead target) so believe they are ok. Any insights would be appreciated.

Thanks
Hi, ok this is what i have been shooting for awhile now. Yes the 4756 and The 76 something powder all suck in cold weather I load.Fed or winchester hull, 38 grs blue dot, fed 209A primer, rem sp 10 wad, with a.100 16 or 20 ga card wad under shot and fold crimp. Put .100 under shot i found if you put it on top it opened my patterns up by 50%. And my goose loads same powder, primer,wad with 1 3/8 ths oz bismuth but no .100 filler card under shot. Now with that said this is what i shoot i am not telling anyone to do the same. I shoot 4s for duck and decoying geese. And goose only i shoot 1, s and bb,s.
Scott

[charlie cleveland]

looks like them old tens were smokeing hot....that's what the big tens were built for....I have never seen a h r double barrel ten...you will have to do a write up and some pictures of it...charlie

[Gene Danielson]

10 bore Thank you for that info; I'll try your Bluedot loads. As an aside I tried some loads with Longshot but could not get patterns much above 50 %. The 4756 was giving me 70+%, but of course that was summer when I did my patterning. They were useless once season got going with cooler temps.


Thanks again

[Milton C Starr]

Hi, ok this is what i have been shooting for awhile now. Yes the 4756 and The 76 something powder all suck in cold weather I load.Fed or winchester hull, 38 grs blue dot, fed 209A primer, rem sp 10 wad, with a.100 16 or 20 ga card wad under shot and fold crimp. Put .100 under shot i found if you put it on top it opened my patterns up by 50%. And my goose loads same powder, primer,wad with 1 3/8 ths oz bismuth but no .100 filler card under shot. Now with that said this is what i shoot i am not telling anyone to do the same. I shoot 4s for duck and decoying geese. And goose only i shoot 1, s and bb,s.
Scott

Sounds similar to what im loading for the 10 but with 34grs of bluedot and 1 3/8oz

[Pete Lester]

10 bore Thank you for that info; I'll try your Bluedot loads. As an aside I tried some loads with Longshot but could not get patterns much above 50 %. The 4756 was giving me 70+%, but of course that was summer when I did my patterning. They were useless once season got going with cooler temps.


Thanks again

I am surprised that Longshot threw an IC pattern through what was shooting a full choke pattern with 4756. How many grains of Longshot and what was the charge weight? Were you using a plastic wad? Longshot can deliver some very fast velocities and bismuth doesn't react well to that.

[Gene Danielson]

Load had 30 grain Longshot, SP10 wad with cards and 1.25oz #4 bismuth. Speed maybe the problem as you indicated. Did not pursue loading Longshot any further because 12 ga bismuth loads I tried had similar poor patterns. The 12 ga loads were cataloged in the manual at 1250fps. Don't know speed on 10ga; not pressure nor speed tested.

[scott kittredge]

10 bore Thank you for that info; I'll try your Bluedot loads. As an aside I tried some loads with Longshot but could not get patterns much above 50 %. The 4756 was giving me 70+%, but of course that was summer when I did my patterning. They were useless once season got going with cooler temps.


Thanks again

i am getting 80 % pulse patterns with my loads, i do alot of testing. biggest thing is keep all filler wads under your shot , on top of it will open up your patterns.

[Milton C Starr]

i am getting 80 % pulse patterns with my loads, i do alot of testing. biggest thing is keep all filler wads under your shot , on top of it will open up your patterns.

I havnt gotten around to patterning mine yet, I need to buy some nitro cards but then I will need to get those pressure tested. I have seen load data in other gauges where adding a nitro card increased pressures up to 2500 psi.

I have noticed with larger shot sizes a overshot card no longer sits properly but a 1/4" fiber wads does but who knows how that will affect patterns.