Steel shot damage?

[Keith Doty]

Pics of another Damascus gun I recently looked at. The continuous vertical ridge is the end of the chamber. The scallops in it and the grooves going toward the muzzle look like something very hard had been down this barrel. When you stuck a finger in the muzzle and rotated you could feel the grooves. They ran the length of the barrel. Gotta be steel shot or BBs. As this was a 2 7/8 chamber 10 ga., I'm trying to figure out where the ammunition came from. As far as I know, all the 10 ga. ammo produced after the steel shot was forced on us for waterfowling was 3 1/2". This damage is too far back to have come from that long a shell and I don't think you could possibly stuff a 3 1/2" in this gun. Handloader with steel BBs?

[charlie cleveland]

kinda looks like rifleing...wgo knows what went down that barrel....charlie

[Elvin Ehrhardt]

I know this is an old posting, but I wanted to put two cents in. I'm not a fan of steel shot and like most of us waterfowlers I think outlawing lead was a typical half-baked liberal idea that still makes zero sense. But, that being said I've been loading steel shot for a good 4 decades and I always try to collect my empties and fired wads if I can in the field. One thing I've learned over the years is that steel shot loading requires a special hard plastic shot cup wads that the shot sets in and shouldn't extend above the edge of the wad. When fired that wad carries the shot out of the barrel and generally a good 5 or 10 yards further before falling away as the shot disperses. In all these years of shooting and loading steel shot I have yet to find a expended wad that showed any sign of the steel shot penetrating the sides of the wad. Which clearly means that if loaded correctly steel shot loads should never damage a barrel by scoring it as it travels out of the barrel. That heavy steel shot wad is all that ever touches the barrel. I even have a friend that occasionally uses his Briley 20 gauge sub-gauge tubes during early duck season and he has no problems with steel shot damaging his tubes and they are made from aluminum. The evidence I've seen firsthand over the years tells me that a lot of the steel shot damage to gun barrel stories are just that, stories, without foundation or evidence. Now I would not suggest a heavy load of steel shot be fired out of a full choked barrel, because that is another matter altogether. Steel shot won't give like lead or even bismuth, so any constriction tighter than modified can risk damage to the choke.

[Keith Doty]

I loaded a LOT of steel back in the day. You are correct, special hard wads (we had to split'em by hand with a tool) and no shot above the cup. I'm not sure what went down this set of barrels but it wasn't lead or bismuth!

[Steve McCarty]

I do not reload shotshells. Do commercial steel loads damage the barrel in my Auto 5 12 gauge with a screw in sheet choke? I think the choke is a Colonial, but I'm not sure. It is a thin walled rather short choke tube. All It says on it is "sheet".

[Kevin McCormack]

I loaded a LOT of steel back in the day. You are correct, special hard wads (we had to split'em by hand with a tool) and no shot above the cup. I'm not sure what went down this set of barrels but it wasn't lead or bismuth!

I also loaded a ton of steel shot after the lead ban came in for waterfowl; I used #7 steel for practice on skeet and trap, the smallest size shot available at the time. I got all my supplies from Ballistics Products and remember having to split the heavy-walled wads by hand as Keith says. I used Grex and later Motor Mica for buffering the shot.

The longest killing shot I ever actually measured was 57 yards on a big Canada goose honker that flew past our field pit in a straight line pass shot situation (think a station 4 skeet shot). He fell dead out and we used a surveyor's tape to measure the actual distance since so many others in the pit argued about the "real" distance of the shot. I was using Federal #BBB steel 3" magnum out of a Remington 870 30" gun with IM choke. (I had the choke opened up from FULL a few years earlier when I lived in KS and shot ducks over flooded milo fields in MO).

I had signed up for and taken a steel shot seminar workshop put on by the MD DNR conducted by ballistics guru Tom Roster. It was a 2-day course consisting of morning presentations/lectures and after-lunch shooting steel exercises including tower shots, springing teal, clays coming into decoys, and hard and fast pass shooting setups. Best $100 I ever spent!

After that experience there was no mystery; steel shot worked and worked well. It would never be lead, but at that point in time there was no non-tox alternative like bismuth, tungsten matrix and the like we have today. Like many others, I rejoiced when those substitutes came into play, but in the meantime, we killed ducks! (And geese!).

[Kevin McCormack]

I do not reload shotshells. Do commercial steel loads damage the barrel in my Auto 5 12 gauge with a screw in sheet choke? I think the choke is a Colonial, but I'm not sure. It is a thin walled rather short choke tube. All It says on it is "sheet".

I'm hoping you mean "Skeet" and not "sheet" chokes! If your A-5 is a Belgian gun with after-market screw chokes, I would be very reticent to use any constriction other than IC due to the narrower mid-bore diameter of the Belgian guns vs. conventional US standards (.723 vs. .729 in 12 gauge).

If the A-5 is Japan-built and Invector or Invector Plus screw choked, Browning literature will suggest the proper size steel for use according to differing situations (ducks over decoys, pass shooting geese, etc.).

I have always been a fan of the A-5 for waterfowl hunting but only owned Belgian guns when the lead ban came into effect; I solved my dilemna by buying a used Japan A-5 3" Magnum with Inventor chokes, which has turned out to be my most dependable and effective gun for most any waterfowling setup, including ducks, geese, and brant shooting.

[Keith Doty]

I have a light 12 Belgian A5 from the 50s choked full. It was my favorite pheasant and duck slayer for years until steel shot came along. I called Browning and was told "bad idea". I put the gun op for several years until I came across what Cabelas said were genuine Browning replacement barrels for about $300. Called Browning again and was told the barrels were indeed from Browning, of recent manufacture, and would fit my gun with no gunsmithing needed. I bought a MOD, it fit perfectly, and have fired many hundred rounds of 2 3/4" steel #4 out of it for years no issues, no "ring bulge" and lots of ducks that got to meet my dogs.
Not recommending this, never measured the bore on this barrel. Just my personal experience!

[Bill Murphy]

I shot many 3 1/2" 1 3/4 ounce ten gauge steel loads out of an AYA Matador with .045 chokes, without any damage. I'm not a waterfowler, but this gun gave superior results in the waterfowl shooting I have done. Kevin is right in stating that steel loads are not useless as some proclaim.

[Keith Doty]

I wouldn't say useless as I have killed many, many waterfowl with steel. I WOULD say steel is not as effective as lead or some of the modern substitutes. I switched to bismuth, load my own, and find it , as far as I can tell, as effective as lead. Now, the cost for any of the "store bought" modern substitutes is brutal, Don't miss often! The bismuth shot cost is about $1 per ounce and going up but I'm less than $30/box for the one ounce 12 ga. ammo I use over decoys for ducks and find it effective easily out to about 50 yds. I see fewer cripple ducks, many more cleanly killed ones with bismuth. Easy to load as well, uses same wads as I use with lead, just about 10% volume difference.

[Bill Murphy]

A 7/8 ounce load in a 20 is not as effective as a 1 1/4 ounce load in a 12. A 1 ounce load of steel is not as effective as a 1 1/4 ounce load of lead. A 3/4 ounce load of lead in a 3" .410 or a 28 is not as effective as a 1 1/8 load of lead in a 16 gauge. It's all a matter of the conditions and the range you shoot. Any load of shot will kill game if you shoot within the limits of your skill, your gun, and your ammunition. For many years, I never shot a duck or a goose with anything other than a ten gauge AYA with 1 3/4 ounces of steel of various sizes, mostly #2, BB, and larger. Some days, I surprised myself, other days I surprised my companions. I was more than satisfied with the results of shooting with that combination.

[Steve McCarty]

I know this is an old posting, but I wanted to put two cents in. I'm not a fan of steel shot and like most of us waterfowlers I think outlawing lead was a typical half-baked liberal idea that still makes zero sense. But, that being said I've been loading steel shot for a good 4 decades and I always try to collect my empties and fired wads if I can in the field. One thing I've learned over the years is that steel shot loading requires a special hard plastic shot cup wads that the shot sets in and shouldn't extend above the edge of the wad. When fired that wad carries the shot out of the barrel and generally a good 5 or 10 yards further before falling away as the shot disperses. In all these years of shooting and loading steel shot I have yet to find a expended wad that showed any sign of the steel shot penetrating the sides of the wad. Which clearly means that if loaded correctly steel shot loads should never damage a barrel by scoring it as it travels out of the barrel. That heavy steel shot wad is all that ever touches the barrel. I even have a friend that occasionally uses his Briley 20 gauge sub-gauge tubes during early duck season and he has no problems with steel shot damaging his tubes and they are made from aluminum. The evidence I've seen firsthand over the years tells me that a lot of the steel shot damage to gun barrel stories are just that, stories, without foundation or evidence. Now I would not suggest a heavy load of steel shot be fired out of a full choked barrel, because that is another matter altogether. Steel shot won't give like lead or even bismuth, so any constriction tighter than modified can risk damage to the choke.

Is there any verifiable evidence that the advent of non-toxic shot has improved the numbers of ducks/geese?

[Steve McCarty]

I'm hoping you mean "Skeet" and not "sheet" chokes! If your A-5 is a Belgian gun with after-market screw chokes, I would be very reticent to use any constriction other than IC due to the narrower mid-bore diameter of the Belgian guns vs. conventional US standards (.723 vs. .729 in 12 gauge).

If the A-5 is Japan-built and Invector or Invector Plus screw choked, Browning literature will suggest the proper size steel for use according to differing situations (ducks over decoys, pass shooting geese, etc.).

I have always been a fan of the A-5 for waterfowl hunting but only owned Belgian guns when the lead ban came into effect; I solved my dilemna by buying a used Japan A-5 3" Magnum with Inventor chokes, which has turned out to be my most dependable and effective gun for most any waterfowling setup, including ducks, geese, and brant shooting.

My typo sorry. Of course I mean "skeet". My A5 is a Belgium gun. I bought it with the screw in choke a few years ago. I'm not sure which company made the choke. It is short, and doesn't include the company name anywhere.

BTW: Does anyone know if the advent of non-toxic shot has actually had a positive effect upon waterfowl numbers? I know it is supposed to, but has it?

[Drew Hause]

It's complicated Steve. Waterfowl populations are highly dependent on drought, breeding season weather and habitat loss. There are also studies documenting little change in the amount of lead shot in sediment samples.
Here is a report from Ducks Unlimited with a population graph 1955 - 2024
https://www.ducks.org/conservation/waterfowl-surveys/2024-duck-numbers