Rusty Frame.

[Brian Stucker]

Recently picked up a BHE represented to have been restored by Turnbull and was surprised to see it rust after hunting in the rain. The gun looked good when it arrived and the case colors and engraving did indeed look newly done. So I did the deed.

I wiped the gun with light oil before duck hunting and took it out on a rainy day for about 4 hours. Upon returning to camp, I noticed there was some bright yellow surface rust forming on the receiver and trigger guard.

Horrified by this sight, love potion #9 (Hoppe's) was applied with a rag and with some light wiping the rust was removed. Now for the other bad part. The rust was indeed removed, but some 'bleached out' looking blemishes took the place of the rust. Could not believe I was seeing blemishes where the rust had been removed. My poor little beautiful debutant...I've ruined her.

Just wondering if those 'acne' scars are permanent, and what can be done to 'duckproof' the gun? I did apply some Filson wax out of frustration while I await you learned advise. Thanks in advance. Brian

[Dave Suponski]

Brian, I have had a few of my Parkers soaked to the core after getting caught in the rain. After a thorough wiping down with a dry towel I have wiped the wood,barrels and frame down with Ballistol and never any sign of rust

[Richard Flanders]

Brian and I exchanged msgs today over this issue. He got BRIGHT YELLOW corrosion after only 4 hrs in the rain that left permanent pits in the case hardening that was I'm assuming redone by Turnbull when they redid the gun. Where are the metallurgists in the crowd here?? To me that indicates something very strange, something gone awry with the case hardening process. To a geologist yellow oxide indicates either sulfur, FeO in a particular form, arsenic oxide, bismuth oxide, or antimony oxide. Whatever it is, his gun is scarred and it will happen again if he doesn't take preventative measures. I recommended waxing it but that's a bandaid cure. Anyone have a clue what the issue is?

[Pete Lester]

I have experienced the same thing only from handling the gun on a humid day. Light yellow rust developing within hours. A situation that has not happened on guns that are original regardless if they have a lot or no case colors. The recievers of recased guns seem to rust faster. I wondered if the guns when original acted the same way. I do think wax is better than oil for protection in the rain. The product called "Nu-finish" for cars is extremely durable.

Correct me if I am wrong, the trigger guard should be blued not cased. If both reciever and trigger guard rusted then I believe the conditions must have been very harsh. Were you hunting around salt water? Did anything else get on your hands that transferred to the gun? Was the gun "dry" of oil or grease when you went out in the rain?

Sorry to hear this happened to you. Try as we might if we take a Parker afield it will be subjected to wear and dings. Hopefully not anything worse, but the potential for tripping and really hurting a gun exists. The gun probably needed to be refinished because of lots of use by previous owners. I believe Parker's are meant to be shot and enjoyed. If we use them they will eventually show some "character" from our use, it's unavoidable. Protect your gun as best you can and enjoy it.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Brian, I have a Parker that was redone by Turnbull and have not had any problems even in heavy rain for 3-4hrs,Think back did you have anything on your hands? lotions, bug spray, etc? was lacquer applied ? they usually put a coat on over the case colors. to protect them. The gun should not rust like that. I use Preserve oil.

[Austin W Hogan]

The PT gun 69017 discussed in another post in the hammer section is pretty original, and rebrowns itself when I use it at skeet or 5 stand on humid days. Wiping the barrel down with Hoppes in the cleaning process removes the yellow, and another rub with white mineral oil restores the color. I give all metal parts a rub with Rig as a final stage of cleaning. Rig is available again in a different looking can.
I had two shooters that were worn white that did show rust even when protected by Rig, on humid days or when rained on. I had both blued in the last ten years; the trigger gaurds are doing fine, but the barrel blue has come off the rib on one, and a few small pits have appearred on the other. It may be that modern bluing salts and pre WW II steel don't get along.
The big three frame lifter 12 that I shoot regularly was evenly yellow brown when I obtained it. The weekly rub down with Hoppes / MO / and Rig yeilded yellow patches for a year or so, but the PT pattern has re emerged. I contemplate dropping that big frame in the ultra sonic to see if the recovery occurs there.
Richard is probably right in his suggestion that some form of sulfur is the culprit in corrosion of newly blued guns. Find a GI ammo can or a big restaurant size mayonaise jar and clean it out. Put items from your shooting kit, paper towels you may use for wipe down or wiping your hands, and anything else you suspect in the can or jar and seal it for a week, then open and sniff. If it smells like farts or rotten eggs you have found the culprit. Newspaper can be especially bad.

Best, Austin

[Larry Frey]

Brian.
How sure are you that the gun was case colored by Turnbull? If you are sure they did the work I would give them a call (585-657-6338) and ask what they think happened and what could be done to prevent it from happening in the future.

[David Dwyer]

Austin
What is RIG,and why do you like it? I use Ballistol as a final on bores and exterior metal
David

[Bill Murphy]

The full name of RIG is "rust inhibiting grease". I agree with Larry. Contact Mr. Turnbull to find out if he, in fact, did refinish your gun. Many guns are advertised as refinished by Turnbull that Turnbull have never seen or touched.

[John Dallas]

RIG is the best. I bought several tubs when I heard they were going out of business, and now have 3 lifetime supplies. I use it as a protectant (with a lambswool wiper) and as a lubricant at hinge points

[Austin W Hogan]

RIG is a grease, not an oil. It will cling to metal and not migrate, and will only leave the metal if carried away by a solvent. It was made by RIG of Sparks Nevada and marketed nationwide in cans and tubes. It has returned to the market in cans in New England.
Ballistol seems to cling fairly well and may have some grease dissolved in it. One thing to remember; any oil that removes rust will remove bluing; blue is just blue rust.

Best, Austin

[Mark Conrad]

Are you sure it was the rain? Blood, apple peel, salt from potato chips etc could have been the problem. You may also want to check the gun case. If the gun case was exposed to salt water on an earlier trip, that could be the problem.

I have used a little bit of Brasso mixed with Rem oil to remove rust and it did not harm the metal surface. I have tried this on bluing and case colors. Start out with a very small amount of Brasso compared to the oil. About 10 to 1 is a good starting point. Good luck.

Mark

[Eric Eis]

Austin do you have a new source for RIG I am getting low.....Eric

[Richard Flanders]

The yellow color to the oxide is the key to this issue. I'm wondering if there is any arsenic used in the case hardening process. There shouldn't be anything in the steel that would oxidize to yellow. Brian shopped quite a while for this, his dream Parker, and B grades certainly don't come cheap. I'm hoping someone can suggest something as the root of the problem. He hunts around Sacramento so I doubt salt water is the issue, though I'm sure the prevailing westerlies can bring some salty air into that area.

[Bruce Day]

Any phosphates in what Brian could have used or in the finish compounds?

[Richard Flanders]

Tx Bruce; hadn't thought of phospates. Good question. Maybe in the hardening 'recipe'? An acid bath maybe?

[Dean Romig]

I wonder if the process of annealing the frame might have something to do with the effect of oxidization on the steel. Doesn't annealing somewhat alter the molecular structure of the surface of the steel?

[Bruce Day]

Phosphoric acids used in metal cleaning solvents and etchants can, if left on and not thoroughly washed off, cause a fast growing surface bloom of yellow FeO2. But, I don't see how you could color case harden or blue with solvents left on the metal surface.

Yes, annealing alters surface molecular structure, I assume by spacing the surface molecules further apart. It has to, because the surface is softer, but I don't know how.

[Austin W Hogan]

Eric ; RIG is back on the shelf in a different jar, at Jr Welch's in Lebanon NH; I am sure that it is available at an increasing number of shops.

Adding to Mark's comment; Oranges, lemons and grapefruit are extremely corrosive to many kinds of iron; coca cola and other carbonated beveridges are not far behind. Newsprint and kraft paper may be in the right environment.

I have seen guns develope stalactites of corrosion at a spot. I think that these , plus the soft yellow /brown that appears on twist barrels, is fungus/bacteria related. Bruce probably had hours of training on prevention of strainer clogging fungus growing in jet fuel. Most oils promote bacterial /fungus growth. The trick is to find an additive prohibits fungus growth, but does not dissolve blue.

Best, Austin

[Richard Flanders]

It's called "Prist" Austin.... that's the most common one I know.

[Brian Stucker]

My dog ate my laptop. Trying new iPad. Thank you all very much. I will call Turnbull on Mon.

PS New gun case, clean hands, lotion is for girls, soil is alkali type...very high Ph.

[Brian Stucker]

I had the opportunity to call and talk to Todd at Turnbull earlier today and get some info. on my gun. Although he didn't have notes on specific work done to the gun, it was in fact there for work in the past.

He indicated that they use only the bone charcoal method of coloration and that it provides little protection, if any at all, from rust. He further described how guns, other than Parkers, are given a protective clear coat on the receiver. His idea was to thoroughly wipe the gun clean after shooting to prevent any rust formation....:cuss:

He also indicated the gun would show rust equally on both the receiver and the blued bbls. There was little interest in the fact that the barrels were not affected. So, I will try the various products everyone was kind enough to share. Probably find these products on the web? Thanks again everyone, great bunch of guys and knowledge base. Brian