Finding out for myself.

[Phillip Carr]

I shot pigeons recently and I took along my 20 gauge reproduction used #4 shot 7/8 oz, 16 gauge Merkel 1 oz #6 shot, and Remington 12 gauge RST 2 1/2” woodcock loads #10 shot 7/8 oz.
I shot best with the Merkel and Remington percentage wise. What surprised me was how well the #10 woodcock loads performed. I was shooting birds that provided multiple presentations from 20 to 40 yards. These are big healthy pigeons that eat well at the dairy where I was shooting.
I shot one box of the woodcock loads and killed 17 birds outright. 2 additional birds fell with broken wings one of which was a trailing bird on a true double.
Two birds were lost that were hit but did not drop within my view. The rest I believe I missed.
I know that there is a lot of different opinions on #10 shot but I must say the results really surprised me. My Remington is choked really full so I’m sure this helped.
I had been really pleased with shooting Mearns quail over my dogs last year with this load but did not expect the performance these gave me on pigeons.
Just sharing for what ever it’s worth.

[Dean Romig]

Phil, can you show us the meat on the birds killed with #10 shot?

That is one very pretty Merkel!!




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[Phillip Carr]

Dean I gave all of the birds to the guys working at the Dairy and did not dress any of the birds.
I am headed up in a few weeks and will try and do a video as well as well as skin some pigeons to show the results. Unfortunately I was delivery pecans to a customer and was trying to stay clean as possible on this trip.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Dean, one year I decided to try #9's on grouse and woodcock, as I had been given a couple cases of 20 ga AA 9's by the widow of a friend. I had to basically just throw away alot of birds as they were so shot up as to be inedible. I have since gone back to 7 1/2 and 8's, or even straight 7's. I use the rest of the 9's on clays.

[Dean Romig]

My opinion of 10’s is about the same as yours Harold. I use 8’s on woodcock and grouse and if they’re close I try to make head shots if I can. Most of the birds I kill have very few, if any pellet damage to the breasts.
- No, I’m not really that good but I will try for head shots and I’m often lucky.





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[Harold Lee Pickens]

I shot a few woodcock with those loads and was barely able to scavenge a wing to send to the USFWS wing survey.

[Daryl Corona]

I don't use #9's on any gamebirds but on pigeons, either out of a trap or hand-thrown, they are deadly. As Phil found out that small shot is the ticket.
I shot a live bird shoot this weekend over 8 Barnaby type traps. The first 5 bird race had me scoring a 3 which won't even get you an honorable mention. I checked the bottom choke in my K32, thinking I had .015 constriction when it was really .027. DUH, my bad. Switched it out to .015 and using 3- 1 1/8- 9's followed by a top barrel with .043 and 3 1/4- 1 1/4- 7 1/2's. Ran the next 13 birds only having to use my second barrel twice to anchor the bird.

[Phillip Carr]

Some guys say their experience is that it’s unsportsman like to shoot birds with 9 or 10 shot as it won’t kill over 15 yards.
Others find it devastates birds.
Lots of variables I suppose but like many of you I’m retired and hunt with my dogs for quail every chance I get.
Season starts in early October and ends in February.
I enjoy eating quail and use what works. For Mearns pointed by my dogs I shoot 9’s spreaders and open chokes.
I can only think of two birds I could not salvage this year. One that flew right at me and I should have never shot, the other where a covey flushed close and I shot at less than 12 yards, something I should not have done.
I do not find my birds are horribly shot up. Then again I don’t mind two or three pellets in the breast.
Most are very easily and cleanly removed with a tool made from a nail.

[chris dawe]

I think that big hairy Newfoundlander shot some of those birds in the last pic ...he cleaned them too , found very little damage of note ...very tasty little birds

[Phillip Carr]

LOL yes that was a good morning out. You were shooting the Parker 16 with the modified stock with some RST #9’s.
My favorite eating bird to hunt and to eat.

[Bob Hayes]

Nice pictures Phil got get out there one season.
Like the nail tool,looks like it could clean a pecan also.

[Phillip Carr]

Bob you need to make the time some year. I know it’s hard to break away as you are busy guiding but well worth a trip.
The tool works pretty good and only cost a few pennies.

[Kenny Graft]

I am a fan of bigger shot....When we hunt Kansas for wild roosters we also get into some bob whites. No time to change loads! So we shoot the load that's in the gun. I kill my bobs outright unless wing tipped. I miss very few wild quail but I shoot sporting clays regular. I love the HV-5 shot from Fiocci. I have only lost one bob to being shot up and it flu right at me and I shot as it passed....big poof!!, nothing to eat left. That has not happened since, I let them get out there, normally they fly away from the shooter and 5-s do not shoot-M-up. I also like 5-s they are easy to find when cleaning the birds. When hunting grouse I like standard field load of 7-s but don't have any factory loads except for some 2-9/16th B&P modern vintage load or Polywad spred-R. I use mostly 7 1/2 field loads for grouse and cock. SXS Ohio

[Phillip Carr]

For our Desert birds, Scale, and Gambles I do like 7 1/2 shot. I even bought a case of RST #6 copper plated for when we hunt the late season birds on the reservation. Lots of long shots in wide open country. It really depends on the type of country and the birds.

[Tom Flanigan]

Dean, one year I decided to try #9's on grouse and woodcock, as I had been given a couple cases of 20 ga AA 9's by the widow of a friend. I had to basically just throw away alot of birds as they were so shot up as to be inedible. I have since gone back to 7 1/2 and 8's, or even straight 7's. I use the rest of the 9's on clays.


I’ve used 9’s on grouse since I was 13 years old and rarely had a bird that was too shot up to eat. It all depends on where you hunt them. My coverts are very thick with shots averaging 15 to 20 yards. The thick cover absorbs a lot of the shot and you hope to get a few through to the bird. It’s all instinctive point shooting. You rarely get a clear shot. I use 9’s because of the larger number of shot in the shell. It increases the odds that some will get through to the bird.

I’ve also hunted them in Saskatchewan incidental to sharptail and hun shooting. The woods around the fields are loaded with grouse but the cover is much more open than at home and the shots longer. They are not concentrated like they are at home and you have to walk more for each flush. I use 6’s for them there since that’s what I use for the sharptails and huns. I suppose that if I used shells for that specific cover, it would probably be 8’s since the shots are more open and the range longer. However, if I was chewing up the birds, I don’t imagine that 8’s vs. 9’s would make much difference. I would probably go to 7 1/2 ‘s.

[Phillip Carr]

I went out last week and shot some pigeons with my new Parker SBT gun. Used RST 12 gauge 2 1/2” Woodcock spreaders 10 shot 7/8 oz.
I picked 14 birds randomly from the pigeons I shot. Rough cleaned only pulled out the breast . There was a total of 29 holes from the #10’s. Some birds did have zero pellets in the breast. If a pellet went in and out I counted this as 2 holes. I did not attempt to remove shot and feathers from the holes.
Birds shot between 15 and 50 yards.Not scientific but these are the results.
I am not advocating using #10’s but I was given the 10’s by a friend and after reading pros and cons of 10 shot I wanted to do check the performance myself.
Based on what I have experienced the 10 shot is very effective and did not seem to damage the breast meat any more than if I was using other size shot.
Birds hunted, distances shot, bird presentations and shells used all effect our individual results.
This is the reason I suppose we all have our preferred shells we like to shoot.
I do not doubt for a minute the poor results others have experienced due to the many variables.
I will post pictures later this evening when I get home and have faster internet speed.

[Phillip Carr]

http://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/57227_600x400.jpg (http://www.jpgbox.com/page/57227_600x400/)

[Phillip Carr]

http://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/57228_600x400.jpg (http://www.jpgbox.com/page/57228_600x400/)

[Phillip Carr]

http://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/57229_600x400.jpg (http://www.jpgbox.com/page/57229_600x400/)

[Phillip Carr]

http://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/57230_600x400.jpg (http://www.jpgbox.com/page/57230_600x400/)

[Bob Hayes]

Nice gun Phil
How do you like the single barrel

[Phillip Carr]

Bob I shot the SBT surprisingly very well. I left in the release trigger. I Wanted to try it before converting it.
Really thought I would struggle with it but after a couple of shots it was not an issue. I actually liked it. The release trigger seems fast, just cant describe it but works well on shooting pigeons.
Its a heavy gun and with the RST’s it had a very soft recoil. Only down side was once the trigger is pulled you are committed. A few times the bird veered off and i had to stand in the ready position for a minute until another bird presented itself.

[John Dallas]

Couldn't you open the action to release the trigger?

[Phillip Carr]

John that seems do obvious now that you mention this but I didn't try it. I need to go get it out and try that this morning. Thank you.

[Garry L Gordon]

Those birds look plenty dead...and very edible...

[Chris Robenalt]

Phil, I've loaded both #9 & #10 2 1/2 410 and have had wonderful results at the dairy. I think Dale has a bag of #10. I'll talk him out of it and duplicate the load you shot at the Goodyear dairy. Ill give you a couple boxes. The only catch is you'll have to come shoot with us and have a great time! I'll extend the same offer to you also Chris!

[Chuck Bishop]

Now that I don't shoot release trigger anymore, the SBT's with release triggers are coming out of the woodwork.:banghead:

[Chad Hefflinger]

I am a firm believer in the RST woodcock loads (spreader #10 shot) for woodcock and early season grouse in the first barrel.