Ideal weight for upland guns

[Mills Morrison]

Now that all hunting seasons are basically over here and my Jon boat is still at the shop, how about we think wistfully about the bird season that is months away?

What is your ideal weight for an upland gun? I weighed some of my favorites and determined somewhere in the 6 pound range. My GH 28 is 6.05. My VH straight grip 20 is 6.08 and my big GH 16 on the 0 frame (28" barrels) is 6.13. All of those handle well. Tried a 12 on a 1 frame with 28 inch barrels and it is over 7 pounds and a tad weighty.

[James L. Martin]

For grouse and woodcock I would say 6lbs to 6 1/2lbs ,closer to 6 the better.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

If I designed a grouse gun, it would weigh 6 lbs with 30 " cyl/cyl barrels

[Rick Riddell]

Harold, that sounds nice!

[Kenny Graft]

I foot hunt all day...we travel to hunt so we waist no time on other things if possible, days are long. That said I have settled on the 16 gauge. O-frame parkers run about 6lbs up to 6-4oz on average with 28" barrels. My 30" barrels Fox will jump that up to 6lbs-5oz. I like 30" barrels for Kansas roosters, the wind always is blowing and the longer barrels keep up with the fast flying birds. I also have some other rooster guns that run plus or minus but nun are over 6lbs-9oz. My grouse guns run lighter yet down to 5lbs-8oz for 16ga. and 5lbs-2oz in 28ga. I do not want to hunt with a gun over 6 1/2 lbs max. I mostly hunt with 16 gauge guns as they also get birds in the bag like a 12 but are light like a 20. I always wanted a DHE-16, never could find the right gun, finally I bought a 28" M/F DHE English grip that comes in at 6lbs-9oz that fits me good. I hope its the one! SXS Ohio

[Craig Larter]

I like 26" barrels on my upland 20 ga. guns, I shoot them well and they seem very light and responsive in my hands. I like anywhere between 5/15 and 6/12. Parkers are heavier than my Foxes gun for gun.

[Mills Morrison]

My Fox 20 is under 6 pounds and I use it primarily for duck hunting

[Jay Gardner]

Except for my 28g Repro, my grouse guns are 2-16’s and 1-12 and weight 6-lb, 4-oz to 6-lb, 10 oz. To me it’s more about balance than weight and I’m more concerned about how a gun feels when I am carrying it than what the scale says. In fact I prefer not to know the weight of a gun so as not to mess with my perception of weight.

[Rich Anderson]

My upland guns fall between 6 and 61/2 lbs for the most part, the exception is a 26 inch barreled H&H 20 that's 5lb 12oz.

[Mills Morrison]

Jay has a good point about just the overall feel of a gun.

[Gary Laudermilch]

Oh boy, I figured the light gun guys would sound off. Well, I'm not one of them. I like my grouse gun to weigh around 6-10 to 12 with 26" barrels. However, as Jay said, it needs to be dynamic in handling. I don't use the term balance though as that is a misnomer. It is how the weight is distributed that makes a gun dynamic and a heavier gun seem lighter without the shortfall of light guns. A big plus is that one can shoot a round of clays to practice with the hunting gun without getting the snot kicked out. As for choke I like the Q1/2 repros or equivalent. I have two that currently qualify and several that do not. I went down the light gun route many years ago and a bunch of bucks ago before I discovered that light was not the answer, for me. Luckily that Purdy that I once owned returned my investment plus some but it was one of the worst shooters I ever owned.

[Rich Anderson]

Luckily that Purdy that I once owned returned my investment plus some but it was one of the worst shooters I ever owned.

Luckily I haven't had that experience. I have two Purdey's a 16 two barrel set and a light game gun which is the only 12 I hunt with. With the 27 inch barrels and spreaders in the left barrel the 16 has taken a number of birds and the 12 is choked .004 & .008 and it's just about perfect using RST 2 inch shells.

[Garry L Gordon]

For grouse and woodcock in thick cover -- or in the mountains -- I like a very light gun that I can easily carry with one hand while using the other to clear brush...or hang on for dear life while climbing through a mountain clearcut. The guns I use for this weigh between 5 lbs. 3 oz. (my Dickson 28 bore) and 5 lbs. 13 oz. (my Fox XE 16 bore).

For quail on the prairie I like between 5 lbs. 10 oz. (my Cogswell & Harrison back action hammer 16 bore w/30 inch barrels -- good forward weight) and 6 lbs. 10 oz. (my Parker DHE 20 bore with 30 inch barrels that fits me like a glove).

If I think I will encounter pheasants I'll opt for a heavier 16 in the 6 1/2 pound range or a 12 bore in the 7 pound range (my GH 30 inch 12 bore that weighs -- and letters at -- 7 lbs.).

Obviously, choke requirements change, too, and are just as important as weight.

Like Kenny, we hunt long days when pursuing upland birds. I don't want to end up with one arm longer than the other.

Now for ducks or dove...

[Mills Morrison]

Ducks or dove are two whole different discussions.

[Gary Laudermilch]

Not necessarily. I routinely us my grouse guns for doves, and passing birds at that. No handicap at all.

[Rick Riddell]

Oh boy, I figured the light gun guys would sound off. Well, I'm not one of them. I like my grouse gun to weigh around 6-10 to 12 with 26" barrels. However, as Jay said, it needs to be dynamic in handling. I don't use the term balance though as that is a misnomer. It is how the weight is distributed that makes a gun dynamic and a heavier gun seem lighter without the shortfall of light guns. A big plus is that one can shoot a round of clays to practice with the hunting gun without getting the snot kicked out. As for choke I like the Q1/2 repros or equivalent. I have two that currently qualify and several that do not. I went down the light gun route many years ago and a bunch of bucks ago before I discovered that light was not the answer, for me. Luckily that Purdy that I once owned returned my investment plus some but it was one of the worst shooters I ever owned.

I think we are in the same boat! I totally agree about gun dynamics. I never really thought about it prior. I always use a heavier gun and really dont notice the weight. I do notice my swing is better and not as erratic, It always felt like lighter guns I had less control and more misses. I recently had the opportunity to purchase a Scottish double made for walk up grouse shooting in the highlands, 26" barrels and 6.4 lbs I thought it was going to be snappy and whippy, but that gun was an eye opener as the weight is distributed differently then my other lighter short barreled guns. It swings really smooth with the weight distributed forward, but so much that it feels barrel heavy. I really enjoy shooting it, and gun dynamics is something I plan on educating myself on! This is a great topic with many different experiences and ideas! Thanks guys!

[Daniel G Rainey]

A well balanced gun ( and Parkers are well balanced ) always fells lighter than they are.

[hugh rather]

When I was a teen and a young man chasing quail, my favorite weighed 7 1/4 #.That was a
Belgian A-5.Later the doubles came. Love 16 parkers about 6.5 #.The common factor in them all is a good very slightly foward balance.Interesting how the weight preference tends toward lighter with increasing years:p

[Garry L Gordon]

When I was a teen and a young man chasing quail, my favorite weighed 7 1/4 #.That was a
Belgian A-5.Later the doubles came. Love 16 parkers about 6.5 #.The common factor in them all is a good very slightly foward balance.Interesting how the weight preference tends toward lighter with increasing years:p

Amen to that!

[Ken Hill]

In the last 6 years, I've started using light 12 gauge guns in the 5 1/2 lb to 6 lb 5 oz range. I do a lot of walking for few shots at pheasant and quail on all day hunts in KS. I use to use a 7lb gun, but I don't need to throw a heavy load at quail or pheasants.

Ken

[Garry L Gordon]

Ken's post strikes a familiar cord with me. I know this is "old hat," but it's still intriguing to me how the balance of a gun determines as much about its useful accuracy as does its total weight.

The Cogswell & Harrison back action hammer 16 bore I mentioned above has 30 inch barrels and is enough forward weighted that is swings well on birds in open country. The same for my under 6 lbs. Dickson round action 12 bore.

My 20 gauge DHE is 6 lbs. 10 oz., a bit on the heavier side for a 20, but it is balanced between the hands and carries and shoots lighter than its scaled weight. It fits me, as do the others I've mentioned -- hitting where I look/point.

My grouse guns would probably be considered "whippy" by some, but I don't do much gun swinging on grouse in tight cover and their light weight is a help in taking quick shots (not fast, but quick...to me there's a difference).

If the gun is balanced correctly for me--and the cover and game I'm after--a light gun is easier on my aging parts after a very long day afield.

I'm not knocking heavier guns, just describing what works for this one, aging hunter. (I've also gone to lighter weight boots, but that's another thread.)

[Joe Graziano]

I like big, heavy guns for everything but quail. That said, I took my very light V. Bernardelli 20 ga out for sea ducks on the Chesapeake last year and did quite well. Why that gun? It was new and I really wanted to shoot it. Bismuth #5 out of M/F chokes did just fine. Normally though, I like a heavy gun so a 12 ga Parker on a #2 frame is near perfect. For quail, I have a very light and lively Jules Pierre 16 ga hammer gun with 30 in barrels that is a joy to carry and shoot.

[Richard Flanders]

My quest to learn to shoot left handed has me taking out all of my guns and trying them. The last two trips out had me shooting my Repro 28, a 28" 1-1/2-frame CHE12 and a 30" 2-frame DH12. I did the best with the heavier D grade, second best with the CHE12 and could hardly hit anything with the Repro 28. I just couldn't get a good mount with the light Repro and found myself searching for the clay. With the DH12 it seemed effortless to powder one clay after another. When I was shooting right-handed I could do that with this Repro. Not a totally definitive test, of course, but it got me to thinking.

[Dean Romig]

Again, the heaviness of the gun becomes an aid when shooting unaccustomed as a lefty. A lefty who needs to change to being a right-handed shooter would suffer the same consequences initially. But I'll bet if you practice enough with the 28 you'll get pretty good with it.





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[Kenny Graft]

When you talk about hits and misses and how well you shoot. Gun fit is most important, then perceived dynamics and weight is the shooters preference. First you need a gun with proper dimensions that you shoulder the same every time...I have found that a light whippy gun that has a longer length of pull helps me to shoulder the gun correctly and hit more targets than one that has normal or has short pull length. SXS Ohio

[Garry L Gordon]

My quest to learn to shoot left handed has me taking out all of my guns and trying them. The last two trips out had me shooting my Repro 28, a 28" 1-1/2-frame CHE12 and a 30" 2-frame DH12. I did the best with the heavier D grade, second best with the CHE12 and could hardly hit anything with the Repro 28. I just couldn't get a good mount with the light Repro and found myself searching for the clay. With the DH12 it seemed effortless to powder one clay after another. When I was shooting right-handed I could do that with this Repro. Not a totally definitive test, of course, but it got me to thinking.

Intriguing! Is weight the only different variable?

[Richard Flanders]

Not really. Two of the guns are stocked pretty similar and have a PG; the Repro has a pretty flat DAH and a SG. My perception though was that it was a weight issue; I just had a tough time getting a consistent mount and swinging through. It's not impossible it was the SG though. My left hand is more arthritic and stiff than my right hand and isn't as flexible. In the past I generally shot the Repro just fine right handed. Whatever the issue, it's not impossible that the Repro will have to go if I can't sort it out. The heaviest gun certainly was easier to 'swing through' consistently on rising clays.

[Joe Graziano]

Weight is one reason I shy away from English game guns such as Purdey. The other is, I’m about $100K short. The M21 I bought recently from a PGCA member fits me very well, is a big, heavy gun. I love it and was crushing targets from the first shot. I will increase the LOP to 14 3/4 and it will be perfect. For me, a gun of about 8 lbs, 14 3/4 to 15 in LOP, under 2 1/2 DAH, a touch of cast and dual beads is a winner. It’s only taken me 40 years to figure out.

[Mills Morrison]

Picked this one up last week. GH 16 on 1 frame with factory original 26" barrels. Stock has some ugly issues you can see in the photos, but repairs are holding tight. Really great gun and great addition to my quail gun collection. Ought to be good on doves too.

[Garry L Gordon]

Your pup seems to approve of your new acquisition. Another 16 is always something to celebrate.

[Dean Romig]

That's a really nice piece of American Black Walnut Mills!





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[Mills Morrison]

Thanks and I agree. Am very pleased with this purchase

[bob weeman]

Remington 1894 12 with 26 inch barrels and 6 lbs. 4 oz. I shoot a lot of 20's in it using Briley short tubes. They add little weight and it still has great balance and feel. It patterns well but a little more open than 12 gauge. Choked modified and full so the more open pattern works well in the early season. I do switch guns quite often and have shot both heavy and light, doubles, pumps, semi autos. The ones I shoot well changes from time to time. Still trying to figure out why one goes sour and another that I was not shooting well works again. It is fun though taking different ones into the field. I probably should have stuck with that old Charles Daly over under skeet gun which was my first shotgun and be a better shot....but I also would have missed out on a lot of other fun....

[CraigThompson]

Like many here I’ve owned a veritable truck load of shotguns over the years . And featherweights were part of the equation ! I had a nice old Darne 20 gauge with 25” barrels a number of years ago , I shot it very well after grouse and quail but a round on the skeet field would beat the tar out of you the gun weighed 5 1/2 pounds . Had a Winchester 59 that I chopped the barrel to 22” got rid of the PG and made a straight grip and finally slimmed the forend way down , this was my attempt at a Frank Woolner grouse gun and again I shot it pretty well on birds unloaded I think it was about 5 1/2-5 3/4 . But for me atleast that 59 had no soul so I never really was wound up about it . Later I got an Browning Citori 16 gauge Upland Special 24” I think it was right at 6 pounds , I shot that gun really well at birds both feathered and clay both with mounted gun and low gun . I had however put a decelerator pad on the gun . Also recently had a first year Sterlingworth 20 gauge 26” that was an ounce or so under six pounds and shot it well at dove and clay targets if I paid attention . From years of shootingbtubed over and infers IE 9-10 pound guns I do very well on clay targets with heavy guns . At the moment my favs have to be a VHE 20 28” not sure the weight as well as a GH 0 frame 16 that’s 26” and of course my EH 28” 10 on a 2 frame and almost forgot I not to long ago picked up a Grade 2 top lever 1 frame 12 gauge with 30” barrels . But truth be known since I don’t really bird hunt that much other then occasional dove and game farm pheasants . Yeah as to weight I’d say as long as it’s more then 5 pounds and less then 12 pounds I can deal with it .

[Ronald Scott]

Had a Winchester 59 that I chopped the barrel to 22” got rid of the PG and made a straight grip and finally slimmed the forend way down , this was my attempt at a Frank Woolner grouse gun and again I shot it pretty well on birds unloaded I think it was about 5 1/2-5 3/4 . But for me atleast that 59 had no soul so I never really was wound up about it.

Interesting .... I have never heard of anyone trying that. Thanks for the reminder -- caused me to reread his chapter on grouse guns in "Grouse and Grouse Hunting."

His grouse gun for those who may not own the book:

Winchester Win-Lite Model 59, 3 shot 12 gauge autoloader lightened by a gunsmith to weigh 5lbs 11oz. Barrel cut to 23" and left cylinder bore. Pistol grip "planed off." His preferred load was 1 oz of 8s or 9s in the early season and 7 1/2s later.

Which brings up another topic -- he mentions that he didn't shoot SxSs well and preferred a single sighting plane. Anyone else feel the same? I know that I shoot better scores with my O/Us than I do with my SxSs -- not a lot better but somewhat better. On one SxS (newly manufactured) I experimented with a large white bead and small center bead -- seemed to help. I think a raised rib would help but don't like to looks of them on a SxS.

As far as weight goes I shoot my 6lb 3oz Silver Pigeon I better than any other shotgun I own but I still prefer a light (6 - 6 1/2lb) 28 gauge SxS with 2 triggers (IC and Mod) for upland hunting. Straight or pistol grip, it doesn't matter but I like the lines of a straight stock with splinter forend. 28" barrels are fine, and I'd take 26" tubes before going to 30". If I had my choice I'd go with non-ejector over ejectors but that's not high on the priority list--good triggers are. They need to be crisp and both of equal pull weight (3.5 - 4 lbs)

Craig mentioned "soul" as an important attribute -- I agree even though it's hard to define -- looks, feel, balance, memories, wear marks, and nice wood is important.

Sorry Mr Woolner but I never met an autoloader with soul! I like being able to open the action quickly and silently when crossing a stonewall or when walking up to another hunter.

[Phil Yearout]

I prefer 28" barrels on all gauges. Weights: 20's right around 6 lbs., 16's at about 6-1/2lbs, 12's at 7 lbs. or a bit more - light enough to carry but with enough weight to feel the swing and take a bit of recoil off my shoulder.

The guns I shoot most often (all 16's/28") are a Fox A Grade at 6-4, a Fox Sterlingworth at 6-8 and a Parker Trojan at 6-9. I have some 20's and 12's but frankly I rarely shoot them.

Weight has never been my first question about a gun; it's all about the feel. I do get a kick out of guys that are 20+lbs. overweight obsessing about a couple ounces on a shotgun :).

[Garry L Gordon]

I'm still intrigued by the accounts I read here about how folks shoot. It's why the gun weight, drop, cast, length of pull, stock configuration, etc. are characteristics of an individual's most sought after features. There are most certainly many methods to shooting, and I think there lies the crux of the distinct differences among us as to what features, including weight, we most desire.

I can honestly say that when I hit, as I like to say, "on purpose" (meaning I know it was not a lucky shot), I have never remembered seeing the bead, whether it's brass, ivory, or missing entirely. I obviously shoot instinctively on most of my shots. It's when I start thinking and calculating, that I miss. I believe in the natural pointing method, which means that where I look, I point, and if the guns fits, I hit. When I am shooting doves or ducks is when I have too much time to consider things and start seeing the barrels. I can see if a person mostly shot this way, a single sighting plane might be an advantage. I think I'd go nuts if I shot clays.

There are so many variables. Suffice it to say, I imagine each of us who shoots a great deal has his or her own method. This would included desired weight as well as all of the other nuances of gun fit. It's what makes all of these discussions so interesting...and at times, mystifying.

This has been an enjoyable thread!

[Mills Morrison]

Just picked up a GH 20 today so now I have g grades in every major gauge from 8 to 28. Nice small Damascus gun

[CraigThompson]

Just picked up a GH 20 today so now I have g grades in every major gauge from 8 to 28. Nice small Damascus gun

So a GH 410 should be right on the horizon :rolleyes:

[Mills Morrison]

So a GH 410 should be right on the horizon :rolleyes:

I wish . . . To be honest though, I would rather have another 28 gauge

[Harold Lee Pickens]

ok , Mills, time for pictures of the new GH 20.

[Mills Morrison]

It is dirty and needs a little work. Defects obvious but it is solid

Here you go

[Garry L Gordon]

Damascus barrels on a 20...sweet! :bowdown:

[Mills Morrison]

The pin in the stock has got to go, otherwise I would leave it alone

[Ronald Scott]

Damascus barrels on a 20...sweet! :bowdown:

Agree! I'm in the market for one -- not easy to find...

[Mills Morrison]

There was a 20/28 combo on auction a while back and I could kick myself for not getting it. The 28 barrels were sleeved and not original to the gun, but it was sweet otherwise

[CraigThompson]

I wish . . . To be honest though, I would rather have another 28 gauge

Yes a GH 28 on a 00 frame with 26” IC/M barrels would be rather nice in fluid steel or damascus !

[Mills Morrison]

The gun club is open tonight so I am going to test fire it. It is supposed to be full/full which is fine and would probably make it good for doves.

[charlie cleveland]

not many little 20 ga s made with full and full barrels i believe you have found a neat little shooter....charlie

[Rich Anderson]

not many little 20 ga s made with full and full barrels i believe you have found a neat little shooter....charlie

Charlie I have a Damascus GH 20 with 30 inch barrels and it's F/F and a fun gun to shoot on the clays course.

[Mills Morrison]

To add insult to injury, looks like that 20/28 combo has already been flipped on one of the gun sites

[Mills Morrison]

In good news though, my new GH 20 is doing very well and we are just about in final countdown mode to dove season.