It’s a Good Day When.......

[Dean Romig]

you run out of shells and have to walk back to the truck through good grouse and woodcock cover, holding the dog at heel...





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[Dean Romig]

A flight must have dropped in in the last night or two. We were deep in woodcock today on the “Scrubapple Sidehill” cover. We generally onle take 10 shells with us on a three-hour grouse hunt but today in less than an hour and twenty minutes in an area of about 10-12 acres Grace pointed 17 woodcock.




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[Reggie Bishop]

Day of dreams! That's great!

[davidboyles]

Hunter and "Right Arm Companion" in sync > Congrats Dean that's why we keep going.

[Mills Morrison]

That is a great day.

[Gary Laudermilch]

And...what's the woodcock limit? Seems 10 shells should be more than enough! :whistle:

[Dean Romig]

Under the consistant conditions on a skeet field 10 should be MORE than enough, but.....


I had a chance at a true double on woodcock (it would have been only my second on woodcock since ‘61 or ‘62) when three flushed simultaneously... but I got flustered and blew two new holes in a fine autumn sky...#@*%@!!





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[Eric Eis]

That's fantastic! From what I have heard flight woodcock have not hit mid Michigan yet

[Daniel Carter]

Went to M aine thursday and found more than the week before, with the cold and north wind they may come in a bunch this year. Last year was a constant trickle. My companion got a lot of use out of them .i was on for once and did not need many shells but he got to shoot a lot.It is all about the hunt, the day, the dog and the company.

[Dean Romig]

You betcha Daniel!!!!





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[Gary Laudermilch]

One year I ran into a major woodcock flight in a cover I hunt. Too good to keep to myself so the next day I invited a friend to go, him shooting and me working the dogs. This cover requires a substantial walk to get to it so I told my buddy to take plenty of shells. Well, half way through the cover with only 1 bird in the bag he advised he was down to his last two shells, which he emptied without success.

The next day I invited another friend as this was way too good to be true. Again, I admonished him to take plenty of ammo. Again, halfway through the cover he was out of shells with no birds in the bag.

Both of these guys are reasonable shots on the clays course. However, woodcock in heavy cover are a horse of a different color.

So, send them south boys. I have friends that are waiting.

[Dean Romig]

The ones we send south will be showing signs of heavy battering, limping along on shredded wing feathers. Have at em - they should be easy to kill by the time they get to you fellas.






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[chris dawe]

you run out of shells and have to walk back to the truck through good grouse and woodcock cover, holding the dog at heel...





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That is a VERY good day !

[Tom Flanigan]

Dean, all of us New England boys wish for a day like you had. Good for you!!!!!! I will be polite and not ask you if you skinned your birds. But I will say that the woodcock is one of the easiest birds to pick. The skin doesn't rip easily and the white meat on the legs is the best part of the bird, in my opinion. I'm glad you had a great day.

[Dean Romig]

Actually Tom, though you may call me a heretic, I filet the breasts off and sautee them in butter at a high heat - 1 minute on one side and about 45 seconds on the other side and take them out of the pan immediately. They’re like rare venison tenderloin and go great with a sip of bourbon or scotch. Have you tried them this way?





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[Stephen Hodges]

[QUOTE=Dean Romig;256379]you run out of shells and have to walk back to the truck through good grouse and woodcock cover, holding the dog at heel...

Dean, great day!! Please send some of those wounded birds over here to New Hampshire:) What gun are you using?

[Tom Flanigan]

I'll refrain from calling you a heathen Dean, because you're a great guy. I've never tried them that way. I roast them in the oven with nothing on them but a bit of salt and pepper. Some put bacon strips across their backs, but I never do that. I don't want to introduce any "unnatural" flavors to my game. You are missing a treat with those little legs Dean. White meat and wonderful, although there is not much meat there. But those little legs are fat and you get a mouthful of great eating. If you have 100 or so woodcock they could make a meal in themselves.

[Dean Romig]

[QUOTE=Dean Romig;256379]What gun are you using?

I was using my 28 gauge VHE with 26” barrels and skeet chokes. The several times I failed to connect were my fault entirely.





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[Dean Romig]

I've never tried them that way.


Tom, you really should try it one time - you owe it to yourself. Just unadulterated woodcock breasts sauteed in butter. But don’t overcook them!





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[Dean Romig]

A few pictures from our wonderful woodcock happening yesterday.

Incidentally, we went back to the "scrubapple sidehill" again today in the hope of a repeat performance. We were very lucky that either they were still there or that more had dropped in overnight. In any case, we had 12 flushes - most pointed by Grace - but today I couldn't get a break. Every flush I had was behind the screen of a gnarly scrubapple tangle. Jamie connected on two of them... lucky guy...

That's the new camp built in 2000 and finished in 2001 & 2 but we never skipped a beat - still hunted from the new camp even while it was under construction. The long low section closer to the viewer is the camp - the rest of it, the tower and the three story stone structure is Tom & Diane's home. This place was his brainstorm and he built it, stone by stone and beam by beam, almost entirely by himself. Jamie and I stayed in a camping trailer for two weeks while we helped tobuild the camp section.
I've told Tom that he has actually built a monument to himself but he disagrees - says he just likes working with his hands.





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[Tom Flanigan]

Tom, you really should try it one time - you owe it to yourself. Just unadulterated woodcock breasts sauteed in butter. But don’t overcook them!

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I'll give it a try Dean. I'll just split the bird in half along the backbone and sauté the halves, legs and skin attached.

[Dean Romig]

Have it your way Tom, but it's just not the same... you'll overcook it that way. :cheers:





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[Garry L Gordon]

Really enjoyed the photos...especially the "dog tired" one!

Sometimes I cannot believe the bond between hunter and dog. It's an incredible thing to behold (even from your lap). You are a lucky man.

[Tom Flanigan]

Have it your way Tom, but it's just not the same... you'll overcook it that way. :cheers:

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I have never skinned a bird in my life since I started hunting at 13 years old. Good old gramps told me a person who skins a bird doesn't deserve to eat it. But just for you Dean, I am going to pop the breasts from some woodcock and do it your way. I wouldn't do it for anyone else Dean. Gramps will be rolling in his grave and I'll probably be shaking too hard to pop the breasts, but I'll do it.

[Dean Romig]

And just for you Tom, I’ll pluck one of mine and roast it your way. Please give me your cooking instructions so I can enjoy it the same way you do.





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[Dean Romig]

Garry - we really do have a special bond. She is devoted to me... and I to her. She’s a PITA sometimes but we overlook her transgressions.





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[Larry Frey]

She’s a PITA sometimes but we overlook her transgressions..

As she does yours.:)

[Eric Eis]

Dean, when you said camp, that is not what I was expecting to see:shock: Guess you better not come to my camp, no running water, woodstove heat, gas lights ! Beautiful place

[Dean Romig]

Eric - we have a Vermont Castings "Resolute" wood stove, an outhouse just off the picture to the left, and the running water is disconnected the first time Tom sees frost on the field in the morning. It doesn't have many creature comforts but it's very comfortable when we come in from beating ourselves up chasing birds. Oh, and we do have electricity in the new camp. ;)

Remembering the old camp that we hunted from for forty-some years, the new camp is like the Taj Mahal... and it does look a lot nicer too.





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[Tom Flanigan]

Eric - we have a Vermont Castings "Resolute" wood stove, an outhouse just off the picture to the left, and the running water is disconnected the first time Tom sees frost on the field in the morning. It doesn't have many creature comforts but it's very comfortable when we come in from beating ourselves up chasing birds.

Remembering the old camp that we hunted from for forty-some years, the new camp is like the Taj Mahal... and it does look a lot nicer too.

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The Vermont Castings stoves are the prettiest ever built. Back in the day I used to visit the original factory in Randolph, Vermont. I became friendly with Duncan Symm who designed all the stoves, of which the Resolute was one. It was the smallest in the line. He showed me the mahogany templates he carved to make the original molds. They were beautiful. He designed the stoves using early American furniture as a guide. All the stoves were named after trans Atlantic sailing ships.

[Dean Romig]

Yup, The Defiant, the Vigilant, the Resolute and the smallest today, to the best of my knowledge, the Intrepid. I have a Vigilant in my home as a secondary heating source (it used to be my primary source) and a Resolute in my place on the lake in Maine, and of course the Resolute in the camp in Vermont. I bought the Vigilant at the foundry in Randolph in '79. It has been a wonderful heater - in fact, it's keeping the Fall afternoon chill off as I type this.

Tom, what's your recipe/cooking instructions for roasting a woodcock?





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[Tom Flanigan]

And just for you Tom, I’ll pluck one of mine and roast it your way. Please give me your cooking instructions so I can enjoy it the same way you do.

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I never cook the woodcock by themselves. I put two or three grouse in the oven first and after a while add the woodcock. I put a pad of butter on the birds backs and lightly salt and pepper. Sometimes I'll put a little paprika on because it looks nice on the cooked birds. I slice an onion and cook it with the birds. Woodcock take about 20 minutes to a half hour at 300 degrees, depending on the stove. I make a gravy from the drippings using Gravy Master to darken it a bit. The little fat strips under the skin of the woodcock is very tasty. The skin and legs are the best part, in my opinion.

I am an absolute fanatic about my game. I age all my game including birds in a refrigerator I have set up for the purpose. I like my grouse aged for five days and woodcock the same in the refrigerator kept at 38 degrees. I place waxed paper over them to keep the uppermost layers from drying out. It is important that they are not wrapped and air circulates around them during aging. Aging makes the birds more tender and I believe, adds a nice mellow taste. Sometimes I just put the drawn birds in the refrigerator with the feathers on. It works well and you don't need the waxed paper but they are harder to pluck and therefore you have an increased danger of ripping the skin. If I have too many birds to pluck after hunting, I just do some every day.

[Dean Romig]

So let me know how you like the fileted breast medallions when you get around to doing it. Remember, 1 minute (max) on the first side and no more than 45 seconds on the flip side in very hot butter - then take them out of the pan! If they cook to "medium" they'll be overdone...





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[Tom Flanigan]

So let me know how you like the fileted breast medallions when you get around to doing it. Remember, 1 minute (max) on the first side and no more than 45 seconds on the flip side in very hot butter - then take them out of the pan! If they cook to "medium" they'll be overdone...

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I'll remember Dean. I'm going to cook up some over the weekend and give you a report next week. I leave tomorrow for Pawling to do some hunting. Three hours from Mayland. I close on the Maryland house on 11/1 and then I'll live in Pawling permanently. Many of my coverts are 10 minutes from the house. I'll be able to roll out ouf bed and into my coverts like I used to do. It's going to feel like heaven being back permanently in my Pawling home.

[Dean Romig]

I only wish I could go back in time to the hunting haunts of my youth.

Someday I will, but I won't be able to share my experiences with anyone else...





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[John Dallas]

For anyone who wishes it, I have a French recipe for eating the WHOLE woodcock, including the entrails. UURRPP

[Larry Frey]

John,
The camp we have gone to the last 10 years has mostly European (French) hunters who travel to New Brunswick every year to hunt the Woodcock. I was told of their method of preparing and eating these birds and honestly didn't believe it until I googled it. Like Dean I breast all my birds and could not imagine eating the innards especially after the long trip back to France.:eek:

[Dean Romig]

For anyone who wishes it, I have a French recipe for eating the WHOLE woodcock, including the entrails. UURRPP


I've watched a video of a French chef preparing the bird, removing the "trail" (entrails) and dicing them up with salt and some spices and sauteeing them in clarified butter, them stuffing them back in the bird and roasting it for another ten or fifteen minutes. The trail was then removed and spread on little cracker thingies and eaten..... yuch :eek: (I mean there's dead worms and stuff in there - :whistle:.......... and then the rest of the bird was consumed with great relish.:bigbye:





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[chris dawe]

I've watched a video of a French chef preparing the bird, removing the "trail" (entrails) and dicing them up with salt and some spices and sauteeing them in clarified butter, them stuffing them back in the bird and roasting it for another ten or fifteen minutes. The trail was then removed and spread on little cracker thingies and eaten..... yuch :eek: (I mean there's dead worms and stuff in there - :whistle:.......... and then the rest of the bird was consumed with great relish.:bigbye:





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I don't care how great the relish is -and I like relish !!! I aint eating bird shit and worms !!!:rotf:

[Gary Laudermilch]

Ah Chris, you have a way with words. I'm still laughing. I completely agree with your assessment of eating woodcock guts.

[Garry L Gordon]

All of this discussion of eating the woodcock and its "trail" on toast reminds me of the French writer Guy de Maupassant's "Woodcock Tales" in which the participants in a hunt hosted by a wealthy aristocrat would gather in the evening over dinner that included a plate of woodcock heads, spinning one impaled on a cork, that would point to one of the guests who then had to tell a story to entertain the dinner party. The French like their woodcock...all of it.

[Dean Romig]

Garry, I've read that.

I'll stick to the breasts.





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[Rick Riddell]

Deans way is great! We've always done them up that way, nice sear in hot butter, yum! We did the legs for the first time last weekend and yes they are very good, but tiny. Flights are coming!

[Garry L Gordon]

Deans way is great! We've always done them up that way, nice sear in hot butter, yum! We did the legs for the first time last weekend and yes they are very good, but tiny. Flights are coming!

That's one very happy dog!!

[Rick Riddell]

That's one very happy dog!!

It was a good morning! He was was very pleased with the shooting this time around!

[Russell E. Cleary]

I captured a few birds up-country this week, and just prepared a couple of Ruffed Grouse breasts for the pot and wonder where the shot pellets have gone to. I followed the wound channels with my sharp-tipped mini-Sabattier knife and excised the bloody bits of flesh and the embedded fine feathers, but could not find any lead shot.


Will they be found only in the eating; where have they all gone?

[Dean Romig]

Russ - if you can't find the shot pellets even by dissecting the wound channel they have obviously passed clean through.

You may find a pellet in the flesh but unless you're an extremely aggressive masticator, you shouldn't break a tooth on it.

PS..... How does one "capture" a grouse with a shotgun?

I just looked up the definition of "capture" and I see that it actually can be done...

"Capture: To take into one's possession by force..."

So I guess I won't 'kill' my grouse anymore. It seems so violent to do so and 'capture' seems so much more benevolent.... Hmm... maybe beneviolent fits even better, is that a word?

So, from now on I'll be capturing my gamebirds. Can't wait for deer season when I can try to capture a nice buck.





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[Richard Flanders]

The natives up here use a similar term for everything they hunt. They "catch" caribou or moose or whatever.

[Russell E. Cleary]

Oh, in our kinder and gentler world “capture” just doesn’t have the same finality as “kill”. Like the valley girl -speak of saying that someone has “issues” and not “problems”.

Sort of like shoot and release.

Actually, I learned the term, as applied to a day’s take, from an old fishing friend who employed it when we had a couple of big Swordfish on deck. But, I veer off topic.

But, thanks Dean for your analysis, I like the idea that I “button-holed” those Ruffed Grouse with No. 8 shot. I will let you know about that theory after we sit down in a little while to eat what I have cooked up today.

[Dean Romig]

Bon Apetit Russ. I hope they come out perfectly.

How do you cook them? I see your reference "for the pot" and realize that is a very generic term meaning 'for the table' or 'for cooking' but wonder what your method of cooking grouse breasts is.





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[Russell E. Cleary]

Dean:

I can’t claim “a method”, as in the past, were I so lucky to “catch” a Grouse at all, I would have the camp cook take care of the culinary part. Just like an effete sportsman.

In the past everything was consumed at camp.

This year, due to a great guide; great dogs and a whole lotta birds, there were four breasts that came home with me.

So, today I went with the most shot-up breasts for a country-style stew, my notion of starting at the bottom of the learning curve.

So, in the crock pot were placed pieces of wild Grouse breast, some tap water and a couple of splashes of White Sauvignon Blanc (for tenderizing, I hoped); fresh cut up carrots, green beans; peas; mushrooms; onion and celery. All stewed for several hours.

And, NO SPICES. I wanted the subtle flavors of the wild birds and fresh vegetables to be detectable, albeit blended; but not over-powered by such as hot pepper sauce or garlic. Otherwise, doesn’t everything end up tasting the same, no matter how pleasing and reliably familiar?

I thought it came out very well and was pleasantly surprised. Kathy G. liked it, but did add some "Mrs. Dash" seasoning to hers. The tenderizing worked great, too. Plus, no dental problems developed: as you suggested, all of the # 8 shot must have blown through the birds before thy hit they ground.

Being more of what Julia Child referred to as ”an eater” than a chef, I welcome comments from Members on what I might have done better (or done wrong). I plead guilty to caution, laziness and pedestrianism in not plucking and cooking with skin on. I may be missing a lot.

As for the next two breasts, I am thinking of something more in the Escoffier tradition. I am on a strict diet: I eat solely for taste.

[Dean Romig]

Sounds delicious Russ!

Grouse has a wonderful delicate 'nutty' flavor and can be served in several ways that do not drown out its natural flavor.

Bon Apetit!





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[Shawn Wayment]

It’s a good day when you can shoot at birds in the open and not in that gosh awful thick stuff that you guys hunt grouse and woodcock in!

[Tom Flanigan]

It’s a good day when you can shoot at birds in the open and not in that gosh awful thick stuff that you guys hunt grouse and woodcock in!


I'd sure like to hunt the western quail species in the open. It's one of the things on my bucket list. I especially want to take a cock Merrns some day. Gorgeous bird. But I love the thick coverts in autumn in the east. I am invigorated and enchanted by the smell and everything about New England grouse and woodcock hunting. It's in my blood.


Dean.....I cooked up some woodcock last night following your instructions. Well, almost. I plucked the breasts and then popped them out. I just couldn't bring myself to skin them. I would have felt dirty :). You are right Dean. For the first time I actually enjoyed eating woodcock breasts done your way. Where the hell were you 55 years ago!

[Dean Romig]

Tom - Some friends I hunt with said exactly the same thing a few years back when they invited me to a game supper. There was venison, bear roast, roasted mallard (plucked, not skinned), and Grouse and woodcock stew (:eek:) where the birds were plucked and put in a pot with carrots, turnips and potatoes and several seasonings I would never, ever put on my food. The grouse weren't even okay and the woodcock were reduced to garbage before they even came out of the pot.... in a word, disgraceful! They swore that's the way they always cooked them....

I was invited again the following year but I insisted I would cook the birds...
And that's when they asked where the HE77 I had been all these years. :whistle:




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[Tom Flanigan]

I needed you a long time ago Dean. But better late than never. The breasts were wonderful.

I like bear also. I took five in Saskatchewan before I stopped shooting them. I had all three color phases, black (rare in the West) brown and cinnamon. I used to shoot them in a farmer friend Snuffy's field. He wanted them shot since they do a lot of damage to the oat crops by rolling on them so they can't be combined. The bears show up in his oat fields when they ripen in September. They don't touch canola or other grains but they are a nuisance in the oat fields. He said he'd seen as many as 17 bears at a time in his fields but the most I ever saw was five.

I don't know why bear meat has such a bad reputation. Canada has very strict laws about wasting game. Each bird shot must be promptly included in the bag and leaving big game meat to waste is against the law. Except for bear. You are allowed to just take the skin and leave the rest for the coyotes. That is something I would never do.

I stopped shooting them because I had all three color phases and I really didn't need any more skins. I consider them big racoons and I never took a lot of pleasure in killing them.

[Dean Romig]

I like bear meat if it's a young bear.





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[Tom Flanigan]

Dean, I’ll give you my perspective on young animals vs. old on the table. The meat of very young animals is tough for some reason. Take veal as an example. It is sliced into cutlets because it is too tough to eat thick. And even the cutlets are tough. It’s the same with all animals, I believe. It is my opinion that a year and a half old buck is no more tender than a five and a half year old deer. If both are aged properly, it makes no difference. Aging properly at a constant temperature is the key. Aging breaks down the muscle and makes meat more tender. Some deer take more aging time than others, without regard to age. I can tell by the smell of the meat when it’s ready to be cut and packaged. I let my venison and other large game age for about a week and then I smell it every day to determine when I should process it. I once left a hindquarter age for two months just to experiment. It was the most tender venison I ever had. The only problem is that the hindquarter had almost two inches of crust that had to be removed. Hence, there was a lot of waste so I never did it again. Hindquarter should not be covered with anything to age properly. A week and a half aged hindquarter will have some crust but it is minimal.

It is important also to skin the animal as quickly as possible to permit rapid cooling. I never take a deer whole out of the woods anymore. I treat it like I treat a moose. I skin it by cutting a slit on top of the backbone and then skin down the sides, remove the backstraps and then skin out the hindquarters and take them out in two pieces by breaking the hindquarter joints. It takes me about 20 minutes to process a deer in the woods. I had a friend time me once. He said I looked like the guy on the Ginsu knife commercial.

Bears take more time to process in the woods since you have to skin to the feet and then break the bone so the feet stay with the skin. But aging of all game and quick cooling are the keys, in my opinion. I’ve never had a bear, moose or deer that was tough, regardless of the age.

[Dean Romig]

The meat of very young animals is tough for some reason.

It is my opinion that a year and a half old buck is no more tender than a five and a half year old deer.


Well Tom, that has not been my experience...

I've had older bear that was aged properly and at the right temperature and the meat, although tender and tasty, had that stringy consistency of a pot roast... while the meat I have had from younger bears was also tender but wasn't stringy at all.

Deer meat - I'll call it venison - I much prefer from 1 1/2 year old deer but the venison from older deer isn't necessarily tougher but the meat, even though aged the same way as younger venison, has a more 'dense' consistency than that of a younger deer. The age of the animal when it is killed certainly must have an effect on the fibers of the muscle - they have been used longer and harder and that must make a difference - I can usually tell a young deer's venison from that of an older deer.

I love deer liver and certainly prefer it from a 1 1/2 year old deer. Today I won't even consider eating the liver from an older deer because of an experience I had a few years ago...
A friend shot a buck that was determined by a biologist to be 6 1/2 years old and my friend gave me the liver within two hours of having killed the buck.
It was tough on the outside (not dried at all - it had been in a zip-lok bag since the deer was gutted) and mush on the inside. Never again will I even consider the liver from an older deer.

I know, everyone has different experiences and opinions on this topic and the folks that will shoot an animal but won't eat it stems from the fact that the meat/carcass was not handled properly from the moment it was killed.
You can't drive around with your buck in the back of your truck for several days showing it off to all your buddies and expect the meat to be fit for consumption - those are the folks who don't really care for venison 'cause "it tastes too gamey."





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[Tom Flanigan]

Your experiences have been different than mine Dean and that's fine. I never eat deer liver but I love the heart. One of my bears was a big boar that was probably a bit over 350 lbs. I watched him in the oats for a while as he fed closer. It was a beautiful animal and it looked like his muscles were flexing as he lumbered within sure range of my .270. He was certainly was a muscular and magnificent bear with a big bulky head and I thought about letting him walk. But I did shoot him although I had regrets afterward. He was one of the few animals that I regretted shooting.


His meat was not stringy and was tender, like all my other bears that are properly aged. I don't know how the bears you ate were handled after shooting. But if the meat bought in the grocery stores was handled the way a lot of folks handle venison, I'm sure it would be sub par also.


Anyway, interesting discussion Dean. Thanks for participating.

[Richard Flanders]

The meat of young animals is tough? Seriously? I shot a deer once that once I got up to it seemed the size of a Brittany. Oh well. I put the whole deer, minus head an forelegs in my pack and kept on hunting. The guys in camp laughed at it on the meat hook.... until they tasted it. It was near as tender as properly roasted armadillo. I've had the same experience with bison, caribou and moose. With moose, if their antlers are longer than their ears, they're too big.

[Todd Poer]

Dean I heard years ago from a vet friend that also liked to deer hunt about deer with dense populations having liver fluke issues. That might of been why that deer's liver was so messed up but it sound just like one I shot. When cleaning deer he took out the liver on about a 4 year old doe and showed me the inside, it looked like what you described. It might not have lived another year if liver was messed up like that. . Supposedly no issue with eating a deer with liver flukes but I don't eat wild game innards knowingly...

BTW the French will eat anything. Hence I think they were the ones that coined the phrase "Hunger makes the best sauce", probably were thinking about Woodcock when they came up with that one. Plus spend anytime with Cajuns and Creoles and that saying is alive and true. Learned a long time ago not to ask to many questions. It took me a while to be able to eat crawfish the right way and not look like a wimp to in-laws.

[Tom Flanigan]

I'll tell you of an experience that embarrasses me. We have an annual big cookout on the private airstrip (Governor Dewey's property) where I hunt, fly and hang out. A person who I lost respect for decided he wanted to have a deer done whole the way pigs are done. He shot a fawn, illegally since it was summer, and put it on the spit. I refused to eat any of it but those who did said it was inedible because it was so tough. The deer went to waste. I have no idea why some young animals are tender, like yours, and others are tough. I think the veal example is a good one. On the whole, I do believe that the theory of young animals being tender while old animals are tough is not consistently true. What I do know for sure is that all my meat, regardless of age, is tender due in no small part to how I handle it and age it.

I have a friend that owns a dairy farm. When his cows get too old to milk, he butchers them. He has given me some meat from the cows which I aged properly. The meat was always tender and flavorful.

[Tom Flanigan]

The meat of young animals is tough? Seriously? I shot a deer once that once I got up to it seemed the size of a Brittany. Oh well. I put the whole deer, minus head an forelegs in my pack and kept on hunting. They guys in camp laughed at it on the meat hook.... until they tasted it. It was near as tender as roasted armadillo. I've had the same experience with bison, caribou and moose. With moose, if their antlers are longer than their ears, they're too big.



Richard, I think the bottom line, from my perspective, is proper handling and aging of the meat at a constant, consistent temperature for an appropriate period of time, depending on the animal. I like 38 degree's but a person I know who raises and processes Angus and Hereford beef in Mt. Airy, Md, for the fine restaurant market, likes 42 degrees. He likes the higher temperature better because the meat ages more quickly and it cost less to bring his meat to market. He also told me that the older beef is more flavorful, something I can’t confirm or deny through my personal experience. All I know for sure is that the dry cows, from my Pawling dairy farmer friend, were some of the best beef I have ever eaten.

I have never killed a young bull moose. All of mine had antlers that extended well beyond the ears. Nor have I killed a calf, which are legal in Saskatchewan. My bulls have all been fine eating. Granted, they are much smaller than Alaskan moose, but I don’t think that size really matters when it comes to the quality of the meat. I have enjoyed this conversation and others opinions. And, by the way, a Piper Super Cub is my favorite airplane to fly. I much prefer it to a Cessna 182 which is also available to me. I love tail draggers. I'll bet we can both agree on that.

[Dean Romig]

It took me a while to be able to eat crawfish the right way and not look like a wimp to in-laws.

I love crayfish (Northerners spelling - and pronunciation I might also add) cooked the way we do it up here... just like shrimp! Yum!





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[Dean Romig]

And, by the way, a Piper Super Cub is my favorite airplane to fly.

I like the Piper Cherokee best... probably because I learned to fly on one.

I have a picture of a Piper Cherokee sent to me recently, that had carried Elizabeth Warren on a campaign tour.... but I'll stop right there 'cause we can't get political here. :bigbye:





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[Tom Flanigan]

I like the Piper Cherokee also, but I have never flown one. It is often used as a training airplane like the Cessna 152. The Cherokee has trycycle landing gear like the Cessnas and I like to fly the tail draggers best. Geez Dean, I have sure taken this thread off topic haven't I? I'll try to be more disiciplined in the future. Let me net it all out....I love woodcock the way you cook them. Thanks for the tip.

[Dean Romig]

Hahaha - Thanks Tom.




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[Todd Poer]

I love crayfish (Northerners spelling - and pronunciation I might also add) cooked the way we do it up here... just like shrimp! Yum!





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What!! That is first time I have heard of someone from NE eating mudbugs from their area. I know Edgar is getting indoctrinated from daughter. Do you and Edgar now actually run traps and go out in the bogs and catch em?:)

There is saying that if there is ever a nuclear holocaust the only things left will be Catholics and crawfish. Next thing I'll be hearing is you and Edgar having a Mardi Gras parade and trying to get women to show you something for a string of beads.

[Tom Flanigan]

I used to catch large crayfish and cook them like a lobster and then dipped them in drawn butter. Not much meat but they are tasty. I used to catch them in a freestone stream near the house. I used a piece of screen bent round and open at the top. I'd lift rocks and when I saw a crawfish I would put the screen in back of its tail and poke in front of it with a stick. They would swim backwards into the screen.

I've eaten Cajun style crawfish in the south, but they were done with too many spices. All you tasted was the spices. Same thing with Maryland crab. We New England boys are not strangers to the delights of eating crayfish. But we don't spice them up and we don't make much of a fuss out of eating them.

[Dean Romig]

We don't call them mudbugs because here in the "Nawth" they live in freestone streams, rivers and lakes. We catch them at night when they are out from under the rocks and we put on chest waders, lash a fishing net to a 5-foot pole and jack them with a light in water up to 3 or 4 feet deep. If you know the right spots, a couple of guys can catch about a hundred in an hour or so. Like Tom says, steam them or boil them like you would a lobster ("lobstah" up here) dunk them in melted butter and pop 'em down the hatch. Delicious!





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[Tom Flanigan]

I hate the term mudbugs. It's a bit too harsh for such a succulent little devil. We called them either crayfish or crawfish where I come from. I've never gone out for them at night. I didn't even know about that. I just got them during the day by lifting rocks. There are a ton of them in my freestone stream. I'll say one thing....Dean sure knows how to cook woodcock and crayfish. Unlike my Maryland friends who take a perfectly good crab and bury it in Old Bay. It's all you taste. New Englanders know better!

[Todd Poer]

Ha, they call em mud bugs for a reason since there really aren't any free stone creeks or bayous in Louisiana. Btw when did you New Englanders start eating them crayfish. Was Thoreau misunderstood wading around for a day in Walden Pond acting like a frog or was he aiming for a mess of crawdads.

I am pretty sure there are lots of different species of crawfish and some maybe taste differently. I have had some crawfish that were properly cleaned and purged and then steamed. They weren't bad but prefer the low country boil Cajun way if done properly and allowed to cool down served with all the fixins.

[Tom Flanigan]

No offense taken for calling them mudbugs Todd. We New England folks don't eat those southern style crawdads that crawl around in the mud. Ours are taken from pristine lakes and beautiful freestone streams. Maybe the reason you southern boys use all those Cajun spices is to overcome the mud taste of your crawdads. No offense, but animals and crustaceans taken from New England are a tad bit tastier than their counterparts down south. Its a fact Todd. Look it up.

[Todd Poer]

No offense taken nor given. I can honestly say that I have not eaten any crawfish taken from a clear water lake or freestone stream, so I have no basis to even debate or discuss that fine point. Plus I know different species do have different tastes. Yes mud bugs need to be cleaned and purged before putting into boil, if not then your doing the meal a disservice. Maybe you don't have to do that for yours but I find it a necessary step to get most out the taste of your crawfish.

BTw be careful about comparing superiority of one crustacean over another from different parts of the country. For many years when the blue crab population was decimated in Maryland they imported a lot of crabs from Louisiana. They only shipped you fellas the ones they did not want for themselves.

[Tom Flanigan]

No offense taken nor given. I can honestly say that I have not eaten any crawfish taken from a clear water lake or freestone stream, so I have no basis to even debate or discuss that fine point. Plus I know different species do have different tastes. Yes mud bugs need to be cleaned and purged before putting into boil, if not then your doing the meal a disservice. Maybe you don't have to do that for yours but I find it a necessary step to get most out the taste of your crawfish.

BTw be careful about comparing superiority of one crustacean over another from different parts of the country. For many years when the blue crab population was decimated in Maryland they imported a lot of crabs from Louisiana. They only shipped you fellas the ones they did not want for themselves.

Excuse me Todd. Maryland is not the north. It's the south. A genuine New England crawfish does not need to be purged or cleaned. I'm trying to behave myself and not state that everything is better in New England or the north, but we did beat you guys in the unfortunate war between the north and the south. It's hard not to feel a bit superior.

[Todd Poer]

O Cmon you pulled your Yankee Card like a gun. Congratulations on the victory. Your ancestors were right, economics and morality of slavery sucks. Been burning anymore witches recently?

BTW according to farmers almanac the Canadian Ice shield should be heading your way this winter. Enjoy.

[Tom Flanigan]

I love winter Todd. I'm anxiously awaiting the Canadian Ice shield. It will mow down a lot of tall timber creating grouse cover some day. Actually, none of my ancestors burned witches but my grandfather (8) on my mothers Farnum family side participated in the so called Salem Witch Trials. Some of the trials were held in Dean's town of Andover, near Salem, where my relatives lived. Ralph Farnum II was a grand juryman for the beginning of the trials but he died before giving service. His son, Ralph Farnum III, testified against Martha Carrier who was hung. He also testified against Hopestill Tylers wife but she was acquitted. I have a record of his testimony from those trials.

Bottom line is don't mess with Yankees.