1904 CHE shooter I am considering

[Bill Holcombe]

I currently have in my possesion a 1904 CHE 12 gauge 2 frame shooter. It has titanic barrels that have been monoblocked and with screw in chokes that was originally 30 inches. The original barrels were blown out, but the monoblocking appears to be well done from my comparisons to others that have been done.

The price is a good one for a CHE. The engraving is more of the early version that is very similar to D's.

It has a pad on the end with the widow peak still visible and the forearm has been rechecked to repair/cover up damage or it may be a new well fitted piece.

I will take more pics, but it is a nice price on a shooter C.

[legh higgins]

a cheap gun in any grade is quickly overshadowed by quality.

[edgarspencer]

It has titanic barrels that have been monoblocked

If it has been sleeved, how do you know it has Titanic barrels? Because the top rib inscription says so?

[greg conomos]

Has the forend been replaced?

[Phillip Carr]

It does look like a D grade, what is the difference in the engraving between this C grade and a D ?

[Bill Holcombe]

I do not know if they are actually titanic or not. The rib that is on them says titanic and the bluing looks correct.

The forend has either been replaced or heavily recheckered, it definitely isn't checked correctly.

I fully realize that condition is important, but I struggle to buy old DHs, a quality CHE is not something I could afford without selling a lot of funs.

[Bill Holcombe]

It does look like a D grade, what is the difference in the engraving between this C grade and a D ?

It has finer detail than a D grade. It also has wrap around checking on the wrist as well as 5 birds on the floor plate as opposed to 4. The scroll work is better as well.

The late 1800 and early 1900 Cs don't have a lot of difference from Ds from what I have seen unless they were rondells.

[David Noble]

Are the barrels still 30 inches? I'd like to see pics of the muzzle and dolls head area.

[Bill Holcombe]

Are the barrels still 30 inches? I'd like to see pics of the muzzle and dolls head area.

Barrels are now 26".

Will take some pics tomorrow.

[Ken Hill]

Bill,

I look and price British guns. The sleeving process has come a long way. The joint is practically invisible using TIG welding techniques. Usually they will use the rib from the old barrels. Even guns with an invisible joint are heavily discounted and hard to resell.

Ken

[Bill Holcombe]

It is heavily discounted and I would be buying it as a shooter, certainly not an investment.

[Erick Dorr]

Can you include some photos of the complete gun, muzzles and the barrel flats?
Glad you are excited about this CHE.
Is the barrel flat have the Titanic steel mark as well as the top rib?
Enjoy,
Erick

[legh higgins]

I bought a 0 frame 20 at a yard sale for 800.00 del grego refinish. turns out it was a 16 monoblocked new 20 barrels etc etc. now its under the bed upstairs...

[legh higgins]

:nono:I bought a 0 frame 20 at a yard sale for 800.00 del grego refinish. turns out it was a 16 monoblocked new 20 barrels etc etc. now its under the bed upstairs...

[Brian Dudley]

That is not really a very good sleeving job from a cosmetic standpoint. Since the sleeve joint can be seen from my house.

[Phillip Carr]

Im sure you were disappointed to realize after purchasing.An easy way to get it out from under the bed and money back in your hand it post it for sale here. For $800 I for one would buy it as well as many others Im quite sure. Some guns are destined to be hunted with.

[Bill Holcombe]

Here are the pics I took this morning. Unfortunately they are with cell phone as the canon is with my wife and kid.

Anyway here they are:


The longer I seem to consider this one the less inclined I seem to buy it. I haven't decided yet as I plan to take it out and shoot it, but while it may be the rare chance for me to own a CHE, I am just not feeling this gun at the moment.

That may change with a couple of RST rounds through it. We shall see.

[greg conomos]

It really boils down to price. If it's a truly good deal...I'd buy it and let it lounge in my safe if nothing else. I'd also probably lose that pad if I were going to be seen in public with it.

[Brian Dudley]

I love seeing checkering jobs done by thise who have no idea what they are doing. By love, i mean it is sad.

[Eric Eis]

It is heavily discounted and I would be buying it as a shooter, certainly not an investment.

If you say it's engraved as a D, how many birds are on the floorplate and what is the serial number?

[greg conomos]

I love seeing checkering jobs done by thise who have no idea what they are doing. By love, i mean it is sad.

That's why I asked if the forend was a replacement. Plus the color is different.

[Bill Holcombe]

If you say it's engraved as a D, how many birds are on the floorplate and what is the serial number?

5 birds on the floor plate. Serial number was already checked and its a C as well according to the book. The engraving just doesn't show a lot of variation from Ds in early C guns.

[Brian Dudley]

Yes, forend wood is non-original replacement.

The engraving on this gun is pretty typical of most C grade guns. Generally speaking.

Every C has a little bit of variation from gun to gun, but this one has the normal amount of scroll work and border treatment that is normally seen on the grade.

The two major features that start showing up in C grade guns is the use of heavy border designs and the use of organicly shaped wrap-around checkering on the wrist.

[Bill Holcombe]

I have decided to pass on this gun. Mostly because when I took it out with me on a site visit to the pecan orchards on the north end of the county, there just wasn't any connection made between me and it. It would make a good shooter, but my budget constraints make me a little more picky on guns I get. It is on its way back home as we speak.

[legh higgins]

The VH 16 ga led a very rough life, monoblocked 20 ga 0 frame chokes were bored out by Marty the blind gunsmith Crooked bore job, off face bad when the forends off! vertical split in restock at metal interface causing very proud wood...your right I should sell it.

[keavin nelson]

What shows on the watertable, above/below the serial number - that will tell you grade.

[Bill Holcombe]

The grade has never been in doubt. It's serials as a C, it has 5 birds on floor plate like a c, it had titanic barrels, it has wrap around checkering on the stock, it has a 4 and a C on the water table. That has never been in doubt.

[John Taddeo]

I gotta ask..... what is that on the front face of the lug in the close picture of the barrel flat ???

[Bill Holcombe]

Really thick grease of some kind.

[David Noble]

In the picture of the barrel flats there is a "K" stamped close to where the barrel steel type is usually located. Does anyone know what that stands for? Krieghof?

[William Davis]

You made a good decision .

William

[Mills Morrison]

I think you made a good decision too.

My advice is to take the money you were going to spend on that gun and just let it build up and you will be able to buy a real C grade.

[Erick Dorr]

David the "K" supposedly stands for King and is typical of guns from the early in the 1900 period. I don't know the time span it was used but it is not uncommon.
Erick

[Dean Romig]

That's right - the "K" is for Charles Alonzo King, the Parker Gun Works superintendent until 1910 when his son Walter King took over that position. We also see the "WK" stamp on the barrel flats, and that is the stamp of Walter King.






.

[Bill Holcombe]

I think you made a good decision too.

My advice is to take the money you were going to spend on that gun and just let it build up and you will be able to buy a real C grade.

I have decided that most C's that are out there don't have anything that truly appeals to me over a D short of being a rondell or bernard or something I could never afford due to uniqueness.

However, I currently have a DH heading my way that I am excited about so we shall see.

[greg conomos]

The C grade is considered a very special grade - the only made about 5,000 - and of those there are only about 4,900 available for purchase at any given time.

[Bruce Day]

Nice C grades sometimes become available but most are tightly held by Parker enthusiasts. Here is the floor plate engraving if a special one, a 1903 CHE 20 ga with 26" star Damascus barrels , rondel side panels and well figured French walnut stock with skeleton butt.

[Bruce Day]

Some seek the C small bores , this one a 16 that serves as an example of original colors

[Bruce Day]

Others seek the few remaining hammer C's, this one from the Parker New York Salesroom.

[Jim DiSpagno]

Thanks Bruce. Always treat to see your pic posts.

[Bruce Day]

Others like B's and double rondel engraving with Bernard barrels . However to some all fineness of detail is a waste or unnecessary

[Bill Holcombe]

Mr. Day your pics are inspiring as always.

[Bruce Day]

And my old regular go to 16 ga CHE, a 1904 gun sent back to Remington in the late 30's for replacement barrels of cro-moly Remington steel.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

This is a "C" grade with a single trigger, Edgar knows what kind and who made it, it is a 1 frame w/30" Titanic barrels 12 gauge, do not have any real good photos, Gary

[Dean Romig]

This is one of the finest Bernard barreled CH's I've ever seen.

Original in every way.




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[edgarspencer]

This is a "C" grade with a single trigger, Edgar knows what kind and who made it, it is a 1 frame w/30" Titanic barrels 12 gauge, do not have any real good photos, Gary

That's a Fulford trigger. Very exotic, and pretty reliable. Was for trap shooters. It selected either single barrel or R-L.

[Bill Holcombe]

This is one of the finest Bernard barreled CH's I've ever seen.

Original in every way.




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Nice half grip/ball grip dean!

[Craig Larter]

I stole my 12ga CHE Bernard at a small auction 4 years ago for $2200. Sometimes it's nice to be lucky. :rotf:

[Dean Romig]

A beautiful "C" Craig!






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[E Robert Fabian]

This is a CH that is was in well used condition, it features flat top rib, hinged knurled triggers and checkered ball grip.

[Bruce Day]

But but but, I thought any differences between C's and D's were minor and insignificant!!


Nice guns guys. I am a real fan of the C grades .

[Bill Holcombe]

But but but, I thought any differences between C's and D's were minor and insignificant!!


Nice guns guys. I am a real fan of the C grades .

Bruce, my point was that the C I was looking at didn't have any significant differences from a D. As I said there are Cs with distinctive engraving and Bernard barrels. This particular gun has neither of those. If I find a c with bernards or distinctive engraving in my budget (unlikely), I will certainly consider it, but when the guns have no difference except one has wrap around checkering and the other doesn't, I don't feel the need to pay a premium for the C , sorry.

[Bruce Day]

There are those C's that are blah but lots of them are pretty neat. Most pre 1900 had deer engraving, then 1900 to 1905 25 percent had rondels and an interesting bottom engraving, then the rest until the early 1920 had five pheasant or ducks flying After 1925 or so things got interesting again with great engraving patterns and sometimes unusual stock details.

Look until you find one you can't live without. I've seen a bunch of great ones.

[Brian Dudley]

Here is a Later C with some small non-typical details in the checkering pattern. Namely the little Bit of carving behind the drop point.


49603

[Bill Holcombe]

There are those C's that are blah but lots of them are pretty neat. Most pre 1900 had deer engraving, then 1900 to 1905 25 percent had rondels and an interesting bottom engraving, then the rest until the early 1920 had five pheasant or ducks flying After 1925 or so things got interesting again with great engraving patterns and sometimes unusual stock details.

Look until you find one you can't live without. I've seen a bunch of great ones.

I have a DH arriving tomorrow that I expect to check that box!