Parker Double Repair question

[Robert Hanlin]

Please forgive me if this has already been addressed in the past "but".... I've got a Parker Double that the locking lug fell out of. It's the piece the forend locks into when re-installed. It appears that this piece was soldered in place but I am having trouble getting solder to flow back even after cleaning all of the surfaces. I'm putting the heat on the same side as the lug but the solder just beads and runs off. I was afraid of applying too much heat but it looks like the beading might be an issue of not enough heat on the area I'm trying to re-solder.

Am I right? Is there a better technique to this repair?

Thanks

[Bill Holcombe]

Sorry I won't be able to offer any help with this. But you might try posting it in the Parker restoration/smithing forum here.

[Paul Ehlers]

Be careful of what your doing. The top & bottom ribs are soft soldered. To much heat will make them come loose as well.

My suggestion is to send the barrels to a good double gunsmith who is familar with doing this type of work. The money you spend up front may save you a bunch in the long run.

Brad Bachelder, Kirk Merrington, Arts gun shop & others. do these type repairs.

[John Campbell]

The "locking lug" you are attempting to re-attach is called the forend loop. DON'T attempt this job yourself! As stated above, send the gun to a pro. It's better than ruining the barrels' integrity.

[Robert Hanlin]

I hear what you're saying.. I'm being very careful with this trust me. Before I started the repair, I placed metal shims along the ribs and wrapped them with wire to hold them in place then I used metal clamps to act as heat sinks as well as extra security to hold the ribs down.

I've not been a gunsmith for long so, from time to time, I get a job I've not done before. That is why I join these forums. I also try and network with other gunsmiths but in my area, they are few and far between so I must rely more on the internet.

So basically I'm asking for advice from anyone who's done this kind of work before.

Thanks again.

[Robert Hanlin]

The "locking lug" you are attempting to re-attach is called the forend loop. DON'T attempt this job yourself! As stated above, send the gun to a pro. It's better than ruining the barrels' integrity.

My apologies for not using the correct terminology. I really don't want to turn this job away if at all possible. John, please don't think I'm being arrogant when I say this but all pro's began as amateurs. I'll never learn to do anything if I keep sending it off. At least I know when to ask for help:)

[Bill Murphy]

Sorry, but this job is not for someone who has never done it before or been taught how to do it, face to face. Your customer is not showing the best judgement in protecting his gun from damage.

[Brian Dudley]

Re-attaching a forend loop is pretty straight forward for someone who knows what they are doing.

If the solder is just beading up and not flowing in then it sounds like flux is not being used or not the correct flux.

Bear in mind that after this repair is properly completed, a re-bluing of the barrels may very likely be needed. Maybe not, but often it is.

[Chris Travinski]

You have to admire a guy for trying! I'm not a gunsmith, but there are many types of flux, sounds like you need to find the right one. Might want to call Brownell's and ask what they would recommend. I hope you have success!

[Robert Hanlin]

Re-attaching a forend loop is pretty straight forward for someone who knows what they are doing.

If the solder is just beading up and not flowing in then it sounds like flux is not being used or not the correct flux.

Bear in mind that after this repair is properly completed, a re-bluing of the barrels may very likely be needed. Maybe not, but often it is.

Thank you !!

Your response is exactly what I was looking for! I've done some work before using silver solder and the flux I used then is the same I tried using here. I'll post some pictures tomorrow of the products I'm using. Thanks again for you help Brian.

[Robert Hanlin]

You have to admire a guy for trying! I'm not a gunsmith, but there are many types of flux, sounds like you need to find the right one. Might want to call Brownell's and ask what they would recommend. I hope you have success!

Thanks Chris... I'll call Brownells in the morning. You're probably correct that I might be using the wrong flux. However it is the type that was suggested for the type of silver solder I'm using. BUT, that's not saying much given the problems I am having.

[Robert Hanlin]

Sorry, but this job is not for someone who has never done it before or been taught how to do it, face to face. Your customer is not showing the best judgement in protecting his gun from damage.

No need to apologize Bill. I understand why you would think the way you do. I'll have to post pictures of the 1894 Remington I'm restoring for a client. There are several firsts going on with that one. First and foremost is the restoration of the Damascus pattern that was all but invisible when I got it and the new rust blue finish that was also applied. But all of that was done after I had raised all of the barrel dents using my shiny new Hydraulic dent raiser.

Bill I've been gunsmithing for just over a year and that's after finishing a years worth of school which was done through an on-line course at Penn Foster. We have no gunsmiths in my area so I wanted to learn to do all of the things folks needed or wanted done to their firearms without having to ship them across the country. Before I started my business (one year ago) for 8 years I restored and refinished firearms for friends and co-workers. I retired 3 years ago and two years into retirement decided it was time to do something I'd always wanted and opened up my own shop.

Trust me when I say I'll never do anything to compromise a clients firearm! The things I've learned doing restorations over the past several years make doing what I do now almost seem simple. But as I said in the beginning, something new seems to always come in. That is why I love this kind of work.

[Virginia Hessler]

Just a thought
You need to do your homework on soldering. You are definitely using the wrong flux.
I'm all for jumping in and trying something new or challenging that's pretty much how I learn, but I must say I only do it on my own guns that way if I mess it up it's my problem.
Good luck with your project, Tom

[Bruce Day]

Out here in Fly Over country we just use Liquid Nails on the few old beater Parkers we are able to get.

[Mark Beasland]

Please forgive me if this has already been addressed in the past "but".... I've got a Parker Double that the locking lug fell out of. It's the piece the forend locks into when re-installed. It appears that this piece was soldered in place but I am having trouble getting solder to flow back even after cleaning all of the surfaces. I'm putting the heat on the same side as the lug but the solder just beads and runs off. I was afraid of applying too much heat but it looks like the beading might be an issue of not enough heat on the area I'm trying to re-solder.

Am I right? Is there a better technique to this repair?

Thanks
You may want to check out Dennis Potter's double gun class or my vintage barrel restoration class.

http://nra.trinidadstate.edu/pdf/2015NRA.pdf

[John Cinkoske]

Are the forend lugs generally silver soldered in place? In my limited experience I have found them soft soldered. Your mileage may vary...

[George Stanton]

John has a point. You say "silver solder" . Silver solder is high temp stuff and not correct. A low temp alloy of tin should probably be used. Do some more research and get some advice from gunsmiths who do this type of work. It would bad for your reputation if you trash a set of Parker barrels.

[Brian Dudley]

The lugs are NOT silver soldered. They are Wolff soldered using the same solder as the ribs. If you are trying to beat it to the point of getting silver solder to melt, then you have surely discolored he metal to the point of needing re-bluing. And possibly compromised the ribs. But this would not be an issue if they were properly clamped to prevent movement.

[Dave Suponski]

Okay educate me. And Wolff solder is?

[Robert Hanlin]

The lugs are NOT silver soldered. They are Wolff soldered using the same solder as the ribs. If you are trying to beat it to the point of getting silver solder to melt, then you have surely discolored he metal to the point of needing re-bluing. And possibly compromised the ribs. But this would not be an issue if they were properly clamped to prevent movement.

If you read my earlier posting you'll see that I did indeed clamp everything down before applying any heat. I fully intend to re-blue the area around my work. No damage or discoloration has occurred and the ribs have not been compromised.

I would also like to know what Wolff soldering is.

[Robert Hanlin]

John has a point. You say "silver solder" . Silver solder is high temp stuff and not correct. A low temp alloy of tin should probably be used. Do some more research and get some advice from gunsmiths who do this type of work. It would bad for your reputation if you trash a set of Parker barrels.

I am not using silver solder... I know I said that in the beginning but I've read enough and heard enough to put that away. I have also contacted another gunsmith and will be getting with him shortly to be shown how to do this type of work.

[Brian Dudley]

I meant Soft soldered. Pardon my horrible auto correct on my phone. Never heard of Wolf solder either. Though one could speculate.

And when I say re-blue, I mean complete reblue. I would not think the results of spot bluing would be very desirable. But hey, some don't care what things look like.

[Robert Hanlin]

I meant Soft soldered. Pardon my horrible auto correct on my phone. Never heard of Wolf solder either. Though one could speculate.

And when I say re-blue, I mean complete reblue. I would not think the results of spot bluing would be very desirable. But hey, some don't care what things look like.

Soft solder.. got it. Brian look. Apparently I've gotten off to a bad start in this forum. I saw your website and can appreciate the work that you do. Let me say this before I leave and never post here again. I take a lot of pride in the kind of work that I turn out for my customers and have for many years. Before I opened my shop, I did the same kind of work you do now for nothing more than the cost of materials. I work from home in a little shop out back.

Did I mention that I take pride in my work? Yes I did and I do! Sure I do what everyone else wants these days i.e. Duarcoat, Cerekote, etc etc but what I love doing the most is bringing back the old finishes. Slow rust bluing is always my first choice when re-bluing any firearm simply because, it's more durable than hot caustic bluing. Sure it takes a lot more work but the results are always worth it! and nothing beats bringing back a lost Damascus pattern in these old doubles! A lot of work involved? You bet it is but like I said before, it's always worth it in the end!

You say that spot bluing would not be desirable? Perhaps not but I suppose it really comes down to how much you are touching up in the first place. In the case of this double I'm repairing, there will be almost no trace of original finish missing once the job is completed. A touch up is all that is warranted. On top of that, I was only asked to repair the "loop" and was not asked to restore the barrels. A job I most certainly would prefer to do.

In any event, I apologize for spinning things up. That was not the intent when I mistakenly asked for help here.

[Bill Holcombe]

Ok......

[Brian Dudley]

Hey. Don't go anywhere. No ill intent meant towards you in my comment about people caring about the appearance of things. I was more speaking of some customers who do not understand the work and expense of takes to do a job right.

We are all here to help.

[Chris Travinski]

Robert, It's just a difference of opinions, the good thing about advice is you can take it or leave it. Brian is trying to help, not run you off!

[Jeff Davison]

First off, I’d like to say thank you to the posters on this thread. I’ve recently had several discussions with my teenage and preteen daughters about the appropriate actions and how they should treat someone when they ask them a question. I’ve tried to explain to them that talking to someone as if they are an idiot for asking isn’t the answer. If they don’t have an answer or can’t provide a positive response, it’s best to let someone else do the talking. They’ll go further in life. The second issue in the thread is to not let anyone ever tell you that you can’t or shouldn’t do anything. People usually do this because they don’t have the knowledge themselves, are afraid to attempt the task, or usually both. Of the list of experts in the field that were thrown out in the posts, I wonder how many times they were told not to do something they had never done? I wonder if Brad would have firearms in the NRA museum if he had listened to people like those posting the responses. How many people told Brian, "don't mess with it"? Hmmm. I say responses, because there was little information given about how to accomplish the task, which was the question. He never asked if he should do the task, however there were quite a few posts about how he shouldn’t be attempting it in the first place. Brian seemed to be the most willing to offer a solution. When I joined this organization recently I thought the following highlighted areas sounded good to me:

- Our Goals
· Promote Parker Shotgun Collecting;
· Publish our quarterly membership journal: Parker Pages;
· Obtain the Parker records and offer a factory-type Letter to authenticate Parkers;
· Provide members with a forum for their Parker research; and
· Conduct an Annual Meeting.

<FONT face="Times New Roman">- About Us

<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">The Parker Gun Collectors Association (PGCA) is a 501(c)7 nonprofit corporation, established in 1993 in the Commonwealth of Virginia, Ralph Main, Registered Agent,

[Jeff Davison]

Guess this is all lip service, if you’re not in the “know” then don’t bother?

Anyway, thanks for the practical example for me to show my daughters of what not to do. Though I wouldn’t have guessed it would come from here.

Jeff

[Bill Holcombe]

I am,sorry, but I didn't think anyone was being condescending to him. He was asking a question about a tricky repair. The posters responding had no idea of his knowledge or experience level. How many guns have been ruined by someone trying to home smith an issue that was beyond them?

After he made clear he had experience and wasn't someone trying to Bubba their gun advice and suggestions were Offered.

Helping people on this forum is as much about preventing them from damaging their guns as it is anything else.

While I was comfortable refinishing my stock, I wouldn't be at all offended if some of our more experienced members said I didn't need to try taking off my rib and putting it back on or recheckering my stock.

Oh and I agree with you Brian, I have seen spot bluing on colts, remingtons, and browning and it never looks quite right. Like you say though, it's a matter of opinion.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Just sitting on the sideline so to speak, listening to the comments, I wonder if he would have gotten different responses if he said he was working on his own gun? This site has the best knowledge of Parker Guns anywhere and I am sure the comments were in no way meant to be derogatory! Just my two cents, Gary

[Bill Holcombe]

I actually don't think it had anything to do with it. originally it sounded like it was his gun. Advice is pretty standard on tricky repairs on parkers from the know ledge able people on this forum. Unless you know what you are doing, dont Do it yourself. Just because I can take down the engine on my lawnmower doesn't mean I am going to do it to the twin turbo in my truck.

[Bob Hardison]

Robert. Like you, I do a lot of my own gunsmithing that others would suggest leaving to a professional. This is the place for information on Parkers and many other vintage doubles. Many very knowledgeable people provide information freely in an attempt to help others. Mr. Dudley is one that frequently jumps to help and and has several instructional posts with detailed photos. Not a simple thing to do.

Hope you follow his advice: "Don't go anywhere...We are all here to help."

I would like to see your progress on this repair.