I need some help with a B grade lifter gun

[Doug Mann]

Yesterday I met a gentleman to give him a price on fixing the buttstock on a lifter Parker.... in this case a "B" grade of all things. The metal on this gun is in wonderful condition with one major exception which I'll get to. The buttstock however was beyond help. The stock was completely broken through at the wrist and had been repaired with two metal straps, poorly inletted into the sides and fastened with wood screws and wrapped with electrical tape. It was BAD! The forend also had pieces missing from both sides.

Now for the metal issue. The trigger guard tang had also been broken off and a piece of steel was welded on and also atached with two ill fitting wood screws. This would have to be fixed and engraved to match the gun.

I don't know how rare this is but the grip was carved in what I call a scallop pattern on the bottom and was very pretty. I liked it a lot!

When I quoted a price to restock the gun, not including the metal work that needed to be done, I think he was shocked. He then asked what the gun was worth as it was and I said I didn't really know. That's my question what's a Parker in this condition worth and maybe I can make him a fair offer?

[Dean Romig]

Mr. Mann, it is very difficult to try to estimate the value of a B-grade lifter simply by description. Is there any way you can post some high resolution pictures of the metal on this gun?
What gauge?
What barrel length?
What barrel steel? e.g., Damascus Steel, Titanic Steel?
Serial number range (which would indicate year)?

[Bill Murphy]

Doug, in addition to the physical appearance of the gun, the provenance may make a difference. A PGCA letter should be requested before a decision is made on the degree of restoration. What is the serial number?

[Doug Mann]

Mr. Mann, it is very difficult to try to estimate the value of a B-grade lifter simply by description. Is there any way you can post some high resolution pictures of the metal on this gun?
What gauge?
What barrel length?
What barrel steel? e.g., Damascus Steel, Titanic Steel?
Serial number range (which would indicate year)?

Dean, thank you for you reply!

When I made the trip to look at the gun I was expecting a much lower grade with a cracked stock, not a B grade. If I had known what I was about to look at I would have brought all my tools to measure with.:banghead:

I believe that it was a 12 gauge, it certainly wasn't a 10. The barrels appeared to be 30" but I can't be certain. They were damascus and were in excellent condition with almost full pattern showing. I did not write down the serial number like a dummy.

The metal work, other than the trigger guard, was in wonderful shape with a best guess of 40% color case remaining.

[Dave Noreen]

Kevin McCormack did an article on an 1879-vintage B-Grade lifter in The Double Gun Journal, Volume Thirteen, Issue 2.

[Dean Romig]

Exclusive of any important provenance that may (or may not) be attached to this gun and in consideration of all the work it will need to bring it to "restocked" condition with a repaired or replaced and re-engraved trigger guard, a value needs to be established on such a repaired gun. Once such a value is established then one needs to work backward and subtract the value of the repairs ( not taking into consideration that you have the expertise to do the work yourself because 99.9% of us do not ).
Having considered all of this I would guess it's present value to be around $2,500 - $3,000 maybe a smidge higher.

[George Lander]

I would second Dean's estimate on the value of the gun "as-is". That could be one very nice Parker once properly restored. Are the breech balls sculpted? Jim Kukuba bought one at Charlton Hall's sale a couple years ago in solid condition for about $10,000 which I thought was a very good buy at the time.

Best Regards, George

[Bill Murphy]

Thanks, George. I'm looking at my little B Lifter in a whole new light now.

[Kevin McCormack]

Doug, I have seen the "clamshell" carved round or ball grip on a dozen or so high-grade Parker lifters, most all of the vintage before the gold grip cap became more or less standard buttstock treatment. With some careful study I'm sure you could duplicate it.
The trigger guard tang issue however is a MASSIVE headache. Even if properly prepaired, the two dissimilar steel types will almost never take the same hue and depth of color at their juncture when re blued. You could think about cutting the tang inside the orbit of the bow as it curves down close enought that the resulting differences in color from rebluing would be most inconsipicuous. I have a lovely and rare 1897 AH Grade 16 ga. 0 frame with this identical issue. I'm having it restored with a straight grip using the aforementioned procedure, since some moron trying to fit a replacement V grade stock to it drilled an extra hole right through the incredibly delicate English scrollwork, ruining the rest of the tang. If the rest of the gun warrants it, I would go for it. Personally I would not pay in excess of $3000 for the gun in its present condition.

[Doug Mann]

Thanks Kevin, The gentleman that owns the gun said it was his grandfathers. You know what that means, it's a family heirloom. Will he sell it..... who knows. It will probably go back into a closet for the next 40 years and then be sold at a garage sale for $20. I did make a really low offer on the gun and he probably thought I was insulting him. I wasn't, I just had no idea what a fair offer should be.

I'll probably call him and make a reasonable offer, if that's not enough then it is what it is.

You're right about the guard issue. Matching the colors on dissimilar metals is a problem. I've had the best results just with rust blue. It may not be correct but it looks ok in the end.

I do have one more question. The carved area at the rear of the checkered grip looks to have an ebony "eyeball". Is that what the material is?

[Bruce Day]

Doug:

Is this the grip carving you mean?

No ebony insert on the bullseye on this one, in fact I have not seen an ebony insert in any bullseye, but I've only seen three of these guns. They are rare, and I understand most Parker collectors have never seen a gun with this grip carving.

[Doug Mann]

Bruce:

That is the carving that was on this gun. The "bulls eye" on this gun was very dark and in the light that I saw it I thought it could be ebony. The clam shell carving on the bottom was very pretty, I had never seen this in real life before.

Thank you for the picture!

[Glenn Fewless]

...You could think about cutting the tang inside the orbit of the bow as it curves down close enought that the resulting differences in color from rebluing would be most inconsipicuous...



Kevin:

This is an excellent idea. As the man voted most likely to get stuck with the metal work on this project, I thank you.


Best regards,

Glenn

[Bruce Day]

Both of you, Doug and Glenn, do excellent work, but I suspect this one could be your most difficult, particularly the wood. If a person was to hire it done, it would be extraordinarily costly. The metal sculpting on this grade is also extraordinary.

[Glenn Fewless]

Bruce:

Thanks for the kind words.

If you do make it to the Southern, be sure to look us up. We are going to bring the Gibbs Farquharson for show and tell.

Best,

Glenn

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Glenn,

Talk to Russ Bickel about the trigger guard, he's the guru on those. I've seen some he's worked up and repaired, amazing stuff.


Destry

[Bruce Day]

By the way, the B grade Parker lifter pictured above was a 12 ga with the metal in as good condition as the wood, good case colors left, and was purchased for $13,000. Skeleton butt, 30" fine damascus, no refinishing needed. I know the buyer did not hesitate and thought it was a very fair price.

[Chuck Heald]

Doug,
You might consider either to replace the trigger guard with one from a lower grade and have it properly engraved or make a new replica complete from scratch. I know you have the skills for that.

[Doug Mann]

To all, I really appreciate the responses that I've received.

It's unlikely that I will become the owner of this fine old Parker. It does need a lot of work which the current owner is aware of but it is a family heirloom and they are not anxious to part with it. I respect and understand their feelings! I have asked to have first chance at the Parker if they decide to part with it.