Research Article on Late Remington Parkers

[George M. Purtill]

As many of you can see by my obscure and not so obscure posts, I am researching the "Twilight Zone" of Remington made Parkers: those guns that we do not have "records" on- post S/N 241788 up to the theoretical end of production, gun S/N 242487. #241788 is where the Serialization book ends.
I have been searching available records including this Forum and piecing together data on these last 699, let's call it 700 guns.
It is fascinating and takes a lot of time. I have over 50 hours into this effort and have identified in some fashion 238 guns- that's only 34% of the missing 700.
I am asking Forum and PGCA members to send me information they have on guns after S/N 241788. It can be a gun you own, have seen, have seen for sale, used to own or whatever. I need the grade, gauge, barrels and whatever else is convenient for you to provide.
Let me know if its a gun you own currently that you want to keep confidential. I just need to know the basis of your information (personally owned, saw at XYZ auction house on June xx, 19xx, Joes' gun shop in Deadend, Connecticut, etc.) so that I know that it is reliable.
The easiest way to send me information is by email:
george.m.purtill@snet.net
Of course if you love to PM, that is fine also.
Use the serial number in the subject line if you could.

Thanks in advance for your responses.
In my article I plan to publish a statistical table, not a listing of individual guns.

[Bill Murphy]

I assume there is a reason not to list the numbers you have acquired to date. Some may not want their numbers published. However, that makes it very hard to determine which numbers to add to your collection. In other words, does your list include the Patton guns, the Del Grego upgrades, the guns sold on major auction sites in the last decade or two? If you have a bunch of numbers already, which you do, it makes me think that anything I send you would be duplicates. Can you let us know what is on your present list? It shouldn't be too much of a danger to those who have shared numbers with you so far.

[George M. Purtill]

I assume there is a reason not to list the numbers you have acquired to date. Some may not want their numbers published. However, that makes it very hard to determine which numbers to add to your collection. In other words, does your list include the Patton guns, the Del Grego upgrades, the guns sold on major auction sites in the last decade or two? If you have a bunch of numbers already, which you do, it makes me think that anything I send you would be duplicates. Can you let us know what is on your present list? It shouldn't be too much of a danger to those who have shared numbers with you so far.

I want people to give me duplicates and triplicates. Sometimes the serial number may be the same but the grade or barrel length may not be. I have many duplicates already. I even have one where the grade is different.
I don't know what the Patton guns are.
I don't know what the Del Grego upgrades are.
I have some auction house information.
But if I can figure out how to make my spreadsheet print only the numbers that I have strikes on I will do so.

[Bill Murphy]

That would be very useful to those of us who would like to contribute.

[George M. Purtill]

That would be very useful to those of us who would like to contribute.

Thanks Bill
I know there are members out there who have the equivalent of the Library of Congress when it comes to Parkers. I have already had generous support.

[Tom Pollock]

I have Remington Parker sn 241195 which is a GHE 30" capped Pistol grip 12 gauge. Interesting in that the shotguns before and after have records available but this one does not. Its not quite late enough for your research but thought I would share it.

[George M. Purtill]

Thanks Tom
Please send me the details of your gun by PM or email.
When I am done (it will probably never be done) with post 241788 guns I am going back to 241154.

[Mike Franzen]

This is a good idea George. I don't own any of these late model guns but I will keep my eyes open at gun shows etc.

[George M. Purtill]

Thanks Mike
Just to be clear, right now I am seeking data on ANY post S/N 241788 guns.
I may end up going even further back but right new I want post 241788.
Thanks for everyone's help.

[John Dunkle]

This is an amazing effort... When this thread falls down the page, I'll make it a "sticky" for a while...

Good for you George!

John

[George M. Purtill]

You know its scary when you see there is a post by JD the Administrator on your thread. It's like getting an envelope from the IRS. Only to find its an adjustment in your favor.

[Charlie]

George, there are two late guns owned by Gen. George S. Patton; as I recall they are shown in TPS in the Special Guns chapter. I remember a late number A1S in the Grades chapter. Maybe others in there but I can't lift the books anymore. Suggest getting the Remington date code where available with other data. Good luck, Charlie Price

[George M. Purtill]

Suggest getting the Remington date code where available with other data. Good luck, Charlie Price

That is a great idea Charlie. That will tell us the production date. [To Dean- remember what I said about how smart CP is.]

[Dean Romig]

That is a great idea Charlie. That will tell us the production date. [To Dean- remember what I said about how smart CP is.]


***shhhh... yes George - we've spoken of Charlie's knowledge and experience often, and how he is always eager to share it.***

[George M. Purtill]

After looking at the last two pages of the Serialization Book and scanning from the start of Ilion production, I realized a lot were missing. In fact, there are 634 guns from Day 1 Ilion to the end of the Serialization Book but only 355 of them are in the Book. So that is 279 more missing guns.
So........
I am going to expand my research to the start of Ilion which is allegedly 241154.

[George M. Purtill]

When Ilion started producing Parkers, they started out with a LOT of parts from Meriden.
At some point in time, Ilion produced their own frames. Does anyone know that date or SN?
I examined 241197 today, a gun some 40 numbers from Day 1 Ilion. It has a Meriden frame. 241508 which I examined yesterday, has an Ilion frame.

[Daryl Corona]

George;
When you mean different frames are you referring to the location on the frame Parker Bros./ Parker was engraved? I have a few guns in the 235900 range with nothing on either the frame sides or bottom. This is great topic and most interesting.

[George M. Purtill]

Good Question Lab Man
I am referring to the water table.

[George M. Purtill]

George;
I have a few guns in the 235900 range with nothing on either the frame sides or bottom. This is great topic and most interesting.

That would be a good side topic in itself. I have heard of NO MARKING guns but never seen one.

[Dean Romig]

On the right side of the water table where it is stamped either Meriden, CT or Illion NY. That, supposedly, determines where the frame was made. But I think it is quite possible that a good number of raw frames with no stamping that were made in Meriden made their way to Illion and were finished and stamped there.

[Dean Romig]

That would be a good side topic in itself. I have heard of NO MARKING guns but never seen one.

But I believe Daryl is referring to the "Parker Bros." on the sides of the frame or simply "Parker" on the bottom of the frame. The ones with nothing on the sides or the bottom are commonly referred to as "transition guns".

[George M. Purtill]

But I think it is quite possible that a good number of raw frames with no stamping that were made in Meriden made their way to Illion and were finished and stamped there.

Agreed- extremely possible. In fact, that would be my presumption but I would like to know what our metal experts think of the finishing that would need to be done to achieve an Ilion frame.

[George M. Purtill]

But I believe Daryl is referring to the "Parker Bros." on the sides of the frame or simply "Parker" on the bottom of the frame. The ones with nothing on the sides or the bottom are commonly referred to as "transition guns".

I understood him Dad.

[Dean Romig]

Just making sure son.... I wouldn't want you falling behind.

[George M. Purtill]

We have all heard of the transition to Chrome Moly barrels post-Remington and most, including myself, have assumed that that is the reason for the no-name ribs. However, that appears to not be true. See a separate thread I am starting today to gather information on member's barrel flat markings.