duck loads!

[Rick Riddell]

I've really enjoyed seeing and reading all the adventures in duck shooting, but what loads are you guys using? I've got a Trojan choked lt mod and ic but I would never dream of running steel down those barrels, but now with all the stories and pics I think I need to get er out of the upland and into the wetland! You guys using hevi shot classic doubles? Are there other non tox shells out there that are safe?

[Kevin McCormack]

I've found Kent Tungsten Matrix to be the best so far. I use it in both vintage doubles (Parker, Fox, etc.) and in my Belgian Browning Superposeds as well where steel is a no-no.

[Rick Riddell]

Ive used that in my double auto with great success! I got a triple of mallards with it, went to buy more....sold out :( I'll have to try and find some more. Are there any other loads out there, I've got classic doubles and Rio Bismuth on the way.

[Richard Flanders]

KTM is hands down the best non-tox I've used if you can find it. I saw Rio bismith loads in the Denver Cabelas last week but bismuth is a far cry short of KTM. I've used Classic Doubles and have it in even the sub gauges down to 28ga but don't have a set opinion on it yet.

[Rick Riddell]

sucks about the bismuth ;(

[Mills Morrison]

RIO Bismuth gets the award for best ad and I am trying it out. Hard to beat kent tm and I also like nice shot

[Rick Riddell]

lets us know about the bismuth, I have some coming friday for Saturday morning blind shooting, plan on getting a few with the Parker!

[Angel Cruz]

I was able to find Hevi-Shot for vintage guns but at the price of each box you better make every shot count. They also have it in 12 and 20ga.

[Peter Clark]

One ounce of NICE shot in a 12 will kill any waterfowl, including geese, depending on shot size. I by the bulk and load it but there have been some supply issues lately. I believe they are looking for a new manufacturer.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Peter you don't wanna get into this shot charge conversation with me. The day I shoot an ounce of shot at a big late season canada goose is the day I've lost my whole mind. LOL

P.S. I've still got those shells for you. One of these days I'll actually get around to posting them to you. I'm a little broke, it might be this week!

[Patrick Butler]

I may be forced into going out and buying loading equipment as I have short-chambered
(original) Parkers in 16, 20, 12 and 10. I could not force myself to lengthen those chambers, even if they had excellent thickness, as all but the 10 are untouched.

I have been on the waiting list for RST for a year, but they have not yet resumed production and as far as I know they are/were the only sellers of short-chambered non-toxic light loads for vintage guns.

I'm a very motivated buyer if anyone has a few extra boxes or no longer shoots a short-chambered oldie. Yes, I also posted in the wanted section.

[Jeff Christie]

Where can you buy Nice Shot for reloading? I have never seen it for sale. I have had reasonable success with bismuth but prefer the KTM way more. I have only used bismuth on our armor plated wild Iowa roosters not ducks or geese. I may on geese next year.

[George Lang]

I know everyone is going to cringe in horror and cry blasphemy but ever since the 1970's when Long Island NY was forced to us steel shot in 12 gauge guns for waterfowl hunting(many years before the national and statewide bans) I used steel shot in all my steel barreled 12's-Parker,Fox & Ithaca doubles. Win model 12's & 97's, Rem mod 31's & Ithaca mod 37's and still do. I measured chokes and still do and have found no differences since the 1970's. Barrels still ring true and bores are bright and shiny. No other problems have been found.Now I don't shoot thousands of round thru each gun but 100 to 200 would be the norm. When I can find non-tox ammo at reasonable prices I will buy it and use it since I have never found a normal steel load that can come close to the performance of lead and some of the non-tox stuff. Now my theory is unless the are truly valuable collectibles they were meant to be shot & not coddled and let the next guy, when I'm gone, make his own decisions and choices. Just my personal observations and choices.

[Mills Morrison]

Maybe Sherman Bell needs to do another "Finding Out For Myself" on steel shot.

[George Lang]

Mills, none of the guns I used had twist or Damascus barrels and chambers were 2 5/8 & 2 3/4's long. I also used 16 gauge guns with lead until the full ban and then steel in the 16's, but 7/8 ounces of steel "sucked" unless the birds were very, very, very close and setting there wings to land. Like I said it was my personal experience and worked for me but each to there own.

[Rick Riddell]

This brings up another situation today, in the blind a guy was using hevi shot goose loads in one of his classic doubles, he offered a few to try but I reluctantly passed, those loads are iron mixed right? Not the same as hevi shot classic doubles. Would they be safe? I use an open choke (IC) over decoys, 4's in hevi shot classic doubles works well for birds coming in but those #2 would have been great for those weary birds on the fringe.

[Mark Ouellette]

I used steel shot in all my steel barreled 12's-Parker,Fox & Ithaca doubles. Win model 12's & 97's, Rem mod 31's & Ithaca mod 37's and still do. I measured chokes and still do and have found no differences since the 1970's.

Now my theory is unless the are truly valuable collectibles they were meant to be shot & not coddled and let the next guy, when I'm gone, make his own decisions and choices.

George,

I will come out of the gun closet... I, along with another member, shot steel shot Federal ammunition in a #2 frame DH Parker .034" in the left and almost .040 constriction in the tighter barrel. No damage occurred to the barrels. I also shot those same shells in my #2 frame EH 10 gauge using Gauge Mates. Same story, no scoring, no bulges, and not damage to the barrels. Oh, and we both still have 10 fingers each! :rotf:

I would not however shoot steel or any very heavy loads in my AH 10 gauge. The barrels would take it but a man's got to know his limitations... If you cannot afford to take the risk then don't do it!

Mark

[George Lang]

I agree Mark.

[Richard Flanders]

I know and 85yr old lady up here who shot the choke out of the nicest Ithaca 37 I have ever seen and had some kind of screw in choke installed and is still shooting the gun. This lady has shot a LOT of ducks. Whenever she comes to camp with us I get the job of hunting with her to make sure she's ok and I can tell you that it's an honor and that there's no place I'd rather be; no one in camp has the nerve to suggest that they take that job from me. What a trooper she is. She flew her Super Cub and C-185 all over Alaska, mostly for hunting, until she was 75 and my hunting partner and neighbor now has the Cub. She was a physician and after she retired at 75 she spent TEN YEARS working at and on developing medical clinics in the Aleutians and then wrote a book on her experiences at it. Her motivation and work ethic could embarrass the stoutest of all of us.
As for the original subject here, I could be wrong here but bet that if one were to reload shells with a double layer of shot wrap or a layer of wrap inside a cup, no type of hard non-tox shot, be it steel or the iron Hevi-shot, could hurt a Parker. I've only shot KTM, bismuth and Classic Doubles out of mine and give KTM the clear nod for being the best of the three.

[Mark Ouellette]

I could be wrong here but bet that if one were to reload shells with a double layer of shot wrap or a layer of wrap inside a cup, no type of hard non-tox shot, be it steel or the iron Hevi-shot, could hurt a Parker. I've only shot KTM, bismuth and Classic Doubles out of mine and give KTM the clear nod for being the best of the three.

Roger that Richard!

I do not recommend a steady diet of steel or Hevi Shot in a Parker mostly because of the strain it will put on a 100 year old stock.

Modern steel shot shells have really thick wads, at least the good ones do.

The problem with steel is the extra velocity needed so that when the shot finally gets to the duck or goose, it has the required energy to penetrate. To achieve the extra muzzle velocity, and to cycle dirty autoloaders, steel shot is loaded to near SAAMI maximum mean working pressures. A Parker with good barrel thickness will withstand the pressure but that pressure may in turn loosen the action. Maybe, maybe not...

Then there is the recoil produced by those high velocity steel shot loads... :crying:

I like Nice Shot, Kent TM, and Bismuth for my Parkers. In a pinch I'd shoot a low condition "shooter" with steel or Hevi Shot.

[charlie cleveland]

i too shoot steel shot thru my double barrel guns..mostly thru a lc smith with modified chokes both barrels..so far the barrels and wood are holding up great.. i shoot bb and no 2 steel shot and it will kill a woody duck at 50 yards ever shot.these were 1 1/4 in 2 3/4 and 3 inch length shells at 1300 fps...i would buy the no tox other brands except they cost way to much for me....charlie

[Jeff Christie]

Has anyone out there suffered damage from steel to a classic double? If so under what circumstances? I won't do it mainly out of fears for the stock. I could not care less for a classic pump.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I'll never forget my buddy Kenny Clements face when he showed me the big fat ring bulge behind the choke in his Winchester Model 23 that was caused by steel. Or my high school friend Dale Dodd's Stevens 520 that had grooves deep as rifling in the barrel from early steel shells.

[John Dallas]

I think Jeff is singing off my song sheet.

I have never had anyone show me a gun ruined by modern steel shells, assuming a choke that was Modified or more open, and shot size no bigger than 2. Time for Sherman Bell to do another test on this.

[Peter Clark]

Peter you don't wanna get into this shot charge conversation with me. The day I shoot an ounce of shot at a big late season canada goose is the day I've lost my whole mind. LOL

P.S. I've still got those shells for you. One of these days I'll actually get around to posting them to you. I'm a little broke, it might be this week!

You are correct, of course. I actually use 1 1/8 oz of Nice shot in #2 for 2 3/4" goose load which works fine over decoys and that is how I usually shoot them. I have also loaded 1 1/4 oz of #2 bismuth for geese with good results. I seem to get them at loner ranges OK with the tightly choked 32" barreled gun.

I have purchased both bulk bismuth and bulk Nice shot from Precision Reloading.

Snowing but still no birds. Will see what happens.
-plc-

[Noel McCormack]

I've had good results hand loading 1 1/4 oz #2s ITX non-toxic high density premium shot pushed by 32 grains of IMR SR 7625 powder. Easy to do with a Lee loader. This recipe provides a 111 pellet count in my 1884 10 ga. Parker hammer Gun and is strong medicine for Canada Geese in Maryland.

[charlie cleveland]

noel that sounds like a good load you have there..bet it will reach out there...charlie

[Jeff Christie]

What case, primer, and wad do you use? It would be hard to think of a better way to burn up 7625.

[CraigThompson]

I've had good results hand loading 1 1/4 oz #2s ITX non-toxic high density premium shot pushed by 32 grains of IMR SR 7625 powder. Easy to do with a Lee loader. This recipe provides a 111 pellet count in my 1884 10 ga. Parker hammer Gun and is strong medicine for Canada Geese in Maryland.

It's my intention to load by weight 1 1/4 ounce of Bismuth #1 in a SP-10 pushed with 30-32 grains of SR7625 . I'll use that load in all my Short 10's .