Tungsten matrix for duck/geese

[Eric Grims]

A while back there was mention of a kent tungsten matrix that was friendly to older guns regarding the charge and the hammering on the gun. They currently offer some loads for waterfowl at 1 3/8oz and 1 1/4oz in 2 3/4" hull. I have a 30" 12gauge G grade choked IM/IM on a heavy # 2 frame. I am thinking the gun can handle it and but was wondering if others are shooting these loads through their Parkers. I do have some ITX loads and some nice shot in low pressures but wanted to try the TM given the reviews.
I also have the new Rio bismuth ammo that I haven't shot yet and was wondering if anyone shot that through their heavier framed older guns since it came out. I plan to shoot it in my repro.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I've been shooting Kent TM at waterfowl for years, it's murder......

I wouldn't shoot it in a light gun for sure, the loads are heavy. But in a heavy frame gun with a good thick grip on the stock I'd say you're fine.


DLH

[Richard Flanders]

Destry is correct. The KTM is the best of the non tox in my opinion and works well on waterfowl. The loads are heavy and not for lightweight wispy guns. The ones I've used are equivalent to the old 3-3/4dram, 1-1/4oz lead loads and feel pretty stout. I only use them in my 2-frame guns.

[Mills Morrison]

I use Nice Shot in my Damascus/Twist guns and Kent TM in regular steel guns. I won't use anything else.

[Eric Grims]

Thanks - I'm convinced

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Problem with Nice Shot is that I don't think you can even get it anymore can you? A friend told me the RST boys had been on back order for it for ages.

Destry

[Richard Flanders]

I've had good luck with the Classic Doubles non tox also. Seems to kill just fine. You rarely see it up here though.

[Mills Morrison]

Destry, that is a problem, although I bought some 12 gauge Nice Shot recently and it was in stock. It was in and out of stock this past season

[Eric Grims]

Had some #3 shot TM loads delivered the other day. Waiting on other sizes.

[charlie cleveland]

what do you fellas think is the best non tox shot out there for ducks..charlie

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Kent TM without question. The only draw back is it's expense.

DLH

[Eric Grims]

In non vintage guns my experience has been regular hevi-shot - witnessing some jaw dropping kills of eiders at a great distance. Have yet to shoot the TM but the testimony here has me planning to stock up and shoot it in a vintage parker and a repro this fall. Got good kills over decoys and beyond with 16 gauge Niceshot in a Parker.

[King Brown]

Kent TM.

[charlie cleveland]

what choke do you boys prefer for long shots with this kent tm...i have some catching up to do on hunting duck s this fall...charlie

[Bob Jurewicz]

Charlie,
I use the TM in 16G both 1 and 1 1/16 oz #5 Shoot for SD Pheasant on public land and Ducks everywhere. I generally use IC/Mod since I shoot 40 yds and under. Mod/Full would work for longer shots. Performance, killing power, is comparable to lead.
Bob Jurewicz

[Eric Grims]

Bob - do you use TM in 16 gauge in older vintage Parkers? If so what frame size?

[Bob Jurewicz]

1 Frame VH with Mod/Full and IC/Mod.
Bob Jurewicz

[Bob Jurewicz]

I should have stated in the above post that the Parker is short chambered TMs are 2 3/4".
So the Parker is not the gun I primarily use with TM. I generally use either a Utica Sterlingworth or a Simpson 76E, both with 2 3/4" chambers.
Bob Jurewicz

[charlie cleveland]

bob this sounds like a really good load for the 16 ga i have a ithaca with 2 3/4 chambers to try this load in..also sonds like the tm would be a good turkey load in the 16 also.thanks charlie

[charlie cleveland]

i have not seen any kent tm shells around my area but there probably is some..if i find some of these shells what am i expecting as far as cost for 12 ga and 10 ga and 16 ga.. charlie

[Bob Jurewicz]

Charlie,
I have not seen TM for sale for a long time. I bought a lifetime supply years ago when no one wanted it. You may find it easier to get Bismuth from Rio.
Bob Jurewicz

[Bob Brown]

The Kent TM are great shells, but they have pretty stiff recoil for old wood. The 3 1/2" 12 gauge, 2 oz. loads come on sale more than most sizes. I bought a pile of them a few years ago when I found them cheap. When torn down they make good light loads. Even light loads seem to hit hard.

[Eric Grims]

Charlie I got some here at cabelas. They also have rio bismuth

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Kent-Tungsten-Matrix174-Shotshells-Per-Box/706234.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch.cmd%3Fform_state%3D searchForm%26N%3D0%26fsch%3Dtrue%26Ntk%3DAllProduc ts%26Ntt%3DTungsten%2Bmatrix%26x%3D-738%26y%3D-52%26WTz_l%3DHeader%253BSearch-All%2BProducts&Ntt=Tungsten+matrix&WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products

[John Dallas]

Charlie - I don't have any data, but I wouldn't think that TM would outperform highly alloyed lead shot, and lead will be a LOT cheaper.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I've shot barrels of it through a full choke gun, it seems to perform fine at fair ranges. And the boys are right, it's heavy stuff in the big magnum loads. Even the 1 1/4 ounce 12 gauge stuff is pretty hefty. I've never put any on a pattern board, I'd rather shoot it at ducks. It's too expensive to waste.

Cheapest I've seen it in the stores is about $3 a shell for the 1 1/4 ounce 12 gauge. My guess is you'll have to order it. I think you can finally buy it directly from Kent. I don't know one retailer these days that keeps store stock due to the prices.

They made some 10 gauge 2 7/8 shells early on but that's not been available for years and I doubt you'd ever find any. They never made it in 3 1/2 inch length for the 10 gauge.


DLH

[charlie cleveland]

i would like to pattern a shell or two to see how it compares with lead shot..a fellow has offered to let me have a few boxes so i will pattern it against lead..the rest i will spareingly shoot at a few ducks and maybe a turkey.. charlie

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I wouldn't waste it on a turkey when I could shoot lead at one. It's too dear to shoot at anything but waterfowl. Anybody has any for sale that Charlie doesn't want feel free to let me know. I have a back stock but it's going to run out one of these days.

DLH

[Mills Morrison]

I ordered my Kent TM online. It is impossible to find in stores, at least in the ones I went to.

[Dan Ray]

What is the difference in frames 1, 1.5 and 2. Also o, oo and so on

[Rick Losey]

What is the difference in frames 1, 1.5 and 2. Also o, oo and so on

the frame gets larger as the number goes up, so with in a gauge you may find a lighter gun on one size and a heavier gun on another

you can determine frame size by measuring the distance between centers on the firing pins

so for example - you will normally find 16's on 0 and on 1 frames

a heavier 12 may be on a 2 or even a 3 while a lighter 10 may be on a 2.

the Parker Story goes into more detail.

[William Shirah]

I had posted this in another thread, but didn't get much feedback:

Last year I purchased a c.1889 10 Ga Model DH. After sending the Damascus Barrels off to to Dale Edmonds for a refinish, I purchased a set of Gauge Mate Gold Inserts to shoot 12 Gauge Ammo on the Skeet Field.

Question: Because of the unavailability of non-tox shells from RST (last Duck Season), I was wondering if anyone out there had Hunted a 10 Bore using the Gauge Mate inserts with either 12 Gauge 1-1/8oz., 1-1/4 and/or 1-5/8 oz. Bismuth, Kent TM and/or Nice Shot in 2-3/4" or 3" shells?

I am mindful of chamber pressure and the age of the stock. My barrels are in excellent condition with lots of wall thickness. They are 28" long with no choke (Some past owner shortened them). Based on felt recoil, it would seem there's a significant pressure drop shooting 12 Ga 1-1/8and 1-1/4 oz ammo thru a 10 Bore.

Any experience or thoughts?

[Mills Morrison]

I have not. I am hoping that RST gets their 10 gauge shells back in stock

[Kevin McCormack]

Supplies of TM is strictly hit or miss at Cabelas; they seem to have stocks of RIO Bismuth but not the preferred waterfowl loads of 3,4 and 5 shot ; most I've seen locally were # 6 shot.. Just paid $36.50/10 pak for 2 3/4" - 1 1/4 oz. and $38.50/10 pak for 3" 1 3/8 oz. RIO Bismuth is still almost half the price of TM at $21.95/ 10 pak at the Cabela's Wheeling WVz and Hamburg PA stores. Per usual, staff doesn't seem to know or care much about when more of either will be restocked. Good luck!

[William Shirah]

Try buying it online at Cabela's. I purchased 5 Boxes of 12GA 3" 1 1/4OZ #4 Rio Bismuth late on the 11th. All shipped on the 12th - Should arrive tomorrow.