New to Site w/old Parker

[Phil Leggett]

Hello from the desert of southwestern Arizona. I hope you guys can help me figure out what I've got on my hands. Yes I read your web site and retrieved most of the pertenent information. I was hoping to be prepared with nice pictures but due to the resolution setting on my camera they're not clear when enlarged.

So, here's what I've got:
16 Ga Parker Bros Side-by-side Hammerless
Frame - O
Weight of Barrel - 37
Grade - P (1)
Barrel - Twist
Ejector - Yes
Serial # - 67057

There are many dates on this thing
Front stock - Pat'd Mar 26, 1878
Barrel - Pat'd May 11, 1878
Receiver has three dates: Mar 15, 1875 (one side), Pat'd Jan 15-Aug 16, 1887 and below that is May 7-Oct 8, 1889 (opposite side from first date)

It also has a breach lever that's curved to the right instead of straight. There's a bird dog with a bird in its mouth on the butt plate.

I'll try to take some better pictures to post but know that the wood is in sad shape (I did post a picture of that and others that distort when enlarged).

Any help you can give would be much appreciated.:banghead:

[Bruce Day]

Mr Rat:

[Phil Leggett]

Sorry if I offended you. My name is Phil Leggett. How do I change it? I visit many forums and have never seen that before.

[Bill Bolyard]

Bruce,

Real Classy, I am sure you could have been a little more, how do we say less offensive. Phil the board adopted the use of real names to add a little civility amongst the people posting. It seems to have helped most of the time.

Bolyard

[Robert Rzepiela]

Don't feel bad. You are only the 20th person who did so in the last 3 months....

[Eric Eis]

Send John Dunkle a pm and he can change the name for you

[Carl Brandt]

Phil,

67057 is not listed in the Parker ID & Serialization book. What makes you think that it has ejectors? Try posting a pic of the breech end of the barrels and the front of the receiver.

It looks like your gun is in need of a complete set of wood but the metalwork seems in relatively good shape. How long are the barrels?

Looks like you have a pretty good project gun there.

Carl.

[Harry Collins]

Phil,

Welcome to the PGCA forum. Your Parker PH 16 gauge has seen alot of use. If it were mine, anything done to restore it would depend upon the condition of the barrels. Are they pitted? How deep are the pits? Do the barrels have dents, how many and how deep? What it boiles down to is could the gun be shot and used. There were many PH's made and they are low grade. Looking at what you have shown us you might be able to sell it for about $250. To replace the stock would cost about $1,000. The stock can be repaired for much less than that, however we must go back to the barrels to know if the gun can be used. Otherwise hang it above the fireplace. The curved top lever was left over from hammer gun production. It allowed the gun to be oppened with a cocked hammer. Please give us some better pictres and tell us about the barrels.

Kindest, Harry

[Larry Frey]

Harry,
I doubt anything could be done to save the wood. It appears as though pieces are missing and from what I can tell from Phil's photos the wood is well below the metal. You are correct that the condition of the barrels will determine if the gun is worth restoring.

[Phil Leggett]

If I understand terminology, the ejector is the "T"-shaped mechanism between the breaches that moves out when the gun is opened, right?

Haven't measured the barrels yet. Will do this afternoon.

[Robin Lewis]

Here you go.... http://www.parkerguns.org/pages/faq/ExtractorsEjectors.htm

[Phil Leggett]

I did spend some time looking over the barrels and they're the best part of the gun. There's no pitting that I noticed (without a magnifying glass) and the only dent is about the size of a nail tip (not head). I thank you guys for your information. This gun was left to my nephew by his deceased father. He gave it, along with several other guns, to me and I wanted to fix it up and give it back to him (even if only to hang over his fireplace).

[Bruce Day]

Sorry if I offended you. .



Didn't offend me at all. Its just the rule here for a lot of reasons.

I have Parker 16 ga that I used to shoot quail with down there and I understand there is good dove shooting around Yuma, if that's where you live.

[Phil Leggett]

Yes, I do live in Yuma and there's no better dove hunting is the US that I've seen. Our first season (Sept 1-15 til noon) brings people from all over. You'd have to reserve a hotel room way in advance to get one during that time and we have over 20 hotels.

[Phil Leggett]

Here you go.... http://www.parkerguns.org/pages/faq/ExtractorsEjectors.htm
Hmmm! I'll have to take a closer look but I believe I have misspoken and it does not have ejectors. I'm a pump and auto shotgun guy, so sorry for the ignorance and thanks for the lesson.

[Bruce Day]

Took a jet into Yuma MCAS several times and felt a need for speed along the river. My cousin came close to shooting himself down with ricochets out on the Gila Bend Range but he made it back to Luke with damage. Lots of ground and lots of area to roam as you please down there, but I understand that the druggies have made it more dangerous to go wandering. I've had plans to get back to SE AZ for quail but need to just do it. Will be at NM White Sands Missile Range for the Bataan Death March Memorial Marathon in March, little late for quail though.

[Harry Collins]

Phil,

From what you said about the barrels the PH could be used with appropriate ammunition. I would do nothing more than wipe it down with an oily rag. It did not look like there was rust on the gun, but that is best handled with Hoppes #9 and very light work with 0000 steel wool. I thnk you are right to keep the gun in the family. If it is going to be used, I would do something ab out the stock.

Harry

[Francis Morin]

We'll save your nickname for a clays event- I have just re-assembled a 16 PH Grade with a higher sn that your Parker- last patent date on mine is 1905, it is the King action and has the 12.5% tool steel wear plate in the barrel lug- Like yours, mine also has Twist barrels and is a size O framed gun.

The only problem with my "Project Parker 16" was a broken top lever leaf spring, thanks to (among others here) Messers R. Lewis and H. Collins, that has been replaced and the gun will be ready for test firing, once I get some BP 2.5" 16 loads- no hurry there.

Luckily mine had an intact stock and forearm- very good wood and checkering for a lower grade Parker- Always a learning curve with fine guns, I have dis-assembled a few other Parkers (mainly Trojans) and followed Robin Lewis guidelines as listed in the Forum a while ago-I have specific ground Grace screwdrivers to fit all the shotguns I strip and clean- mainly Parker, LC Smith and Win M12's- marred and disfigured screw heads are the sign of a "ham-fisted" would-be gunsmith- not good-

I did discover upon re-assembly another bit of "wisdom" as I used a long drift punch to restart the sears in the receiver after settiong the stock back into position- the dia. of that drift was slightly less than that of the actual sear axle pin- which allowed the sears to 'shift' just a bit- as I cocked, dry fired and recocked the gun with the drift punch in first- also to check the safety and push rod alignment- something wasn't right- So I gambled and with the plastic headed gunsmith hammer, tapped the sear pin in against the pressure to the drift punch- that did the trick- every worked fine-

To me, that is clear testimony as to how close and well fitted these Parkers are- so now I will turn or grind to fit a specific long drift punch to the exact diameter of the sear pin-for the next time

My 16 PH is a O frame- would the sears etc be the same if it were a No. 1 frame--? A friend has a BH 16- Bernard barrels on the No. 1 frame, believe his Granddad bought it new in 1911- a treasure--

I think you will find, as we have about 4000 members I believe, a great amount of wisdom and good advice not only on the Parkers but on hunting, shooting and the collecting and restoration of Parkers- so many models and grades and gauges- no one man can know it all. Interesting, at least to me, as I hold the late Paul A. Curtis to have been a ardent fan of the British made sidelocks that he both mentions an "old reliable" in his chapter on selecting the upland gun, but also in the glossary of his book, he uses a Parker boxlock with the visible recessed hinge pin for his example of the components of a double shotgun--:cool:

[Christopher Lien]

"Bruce,
Real Classy, I am sure you could have been a little more, how do we say less offensive."


...... YUP! ---- Very well said Bill, a Spot-On and Very Astute Observation...

Best, CSL
_____________________________

[Phil Leggett]

You guy sound like you've got plenty of experience with these guns. Good to know since I am the type of guy who likes to ask questions...hope you don't mind.

Knowing what you've told me in the past 24 hours, I'm starting to shift my attention from dollar amount to restoration/use. Thanks, and as I said there will be more questions to come.


In fact I already have one. Someone said replacement stocks would cost $1000. Is there a less expensive option should I decide to just return it to a status for use/hunting?

[Phil Leggett]

Took a jet into Yuma MCAS several times and felt a need for speed along the river. My cousin came close to shooting himself down with ricochets out on the Gila Bend Range but he made it back to Luke with damage. Lots of ground and lots of area to roam as you please down there, but I understand that the druggies have made it more dangerous to go wandering. I've had plans to get back to SE AZ for quail but need to just do it. Will be at NM White Sands Missile Range for the Bataan Death March Memorial Marathon in March, little late for quail though.
I don't personally have any problems with trafficing and explore the desert on a regular basis and have for 20 years now. It might have something to do with the fact that I'm always armed and let it be known to everyone I come across. But yes, unfortunately there are drug problems in the area.

As far as quail is concerned, hunt the mountains (high desert ~3000ft). It's the best kept secret in AZ. As long as you've got a dog with a nose, you'll find more birds than you can shake a stick at. Many coveys have well over a hundred birds and you'll find 5-6 of these withing a couple square miles. SHHHHH! It's a secret. The joy is that most hunters are too lazy to chase them. Good news for those of us who aren't.

[Bruce Day]

Used to hunt those big high grasslands around and on Fort Huachuca. While burning JP-4, I could get low and look for good spots and come back on the weekends. Great place and great hunting. Course I like to walk and have good bird dogs.

[Phil Leggett]

Oh, you were a jet jockey. I am a former Marine and still work with THE Marine adversary program (for the past 20+ years). We work on Air Force F-5s. What did you fly?

[Bruce Day]

UPT at Williams by Chandler, then B-52's and eventually 130's worldwide. 1969-1994. Landed at MCAS Yuma several times in 37's and 38's. Some time in F-4's, cousin flew huns then 16's out of Luke. Initial flight tng at Picacho, ran low level for intercepts out of D-M.

[Phil Leggett]

Well, thank you for your service, sir. I almost guessed F-4s. F-4 guys are different, not a bad thing and I can't put my finger on it, but I seem to always know. 30+ years around you guys rubs off after a while, I guess. Nice to meet you Bruce. If you're ever in the area let me know and we'll hunt something. Beers always cold in my fridge.

[Austin W Hogan]

Bruce; Did you know Rick Hornbeck? B 52 pilot with several tours at Plattsburg. Regular shooter at Pine Tree then and after his retirement to the Hudson Valley.

Best, Austin

[Dean Romig]

DezrtRat, I don't think you'll find anyone who will do a quality restock for much under $1K

[Francis Morin]

Not a jet jockey like Col. Day- wanted to be one- still would like to meet Gen. yeager, wanted to meet Chuck heston too- but that's no longer an option. Don't give up- you care to send me a private message through this forum with a PO Box or mailable address and I'll shoot you a copy of last Falls (2008) issue of Parker Pages-I think we have the best magazine of any gun group going- and not just because our Editor was kind enough to run a article I wrote- I'm no writer- but if you want a 1903 accurized or a Timney trigger put into your M40, I'm your guy-

I bought a Porject Parker in pieces about a year ago- just for fun- I bought a GHE 12 gauge receiver (No. 2 frame) and matching ejector forearm- had friend and Master Gunsmith Brad Bachelder fit a set of VH 28" barrels, make ejectors and he found a used GH pistol grip stock that had a crack at the wrist- which he repaired and fitted to the gun- the article has fotos and more details-

Long story short- try him- I've seen some distressed rifle and shotgun stocks he has repaired, he may also have a buttstock that can be fitted to your Parker and make it shootable again- I can't tell you the cost, but it might be worth checking into- Brad Bacheler e-mail bachelderfirearm@aol.com phone 1-616-459-3636. Brad is a member of the PGCA, has been a gunsmith for 30 years in Kent Co. Michigan and is one of many qualified gunsmiths known to us "Parkerites" as a master craftsman- his work is top shelf-- Semper Fi Gyrene- and lock and Load a cold Coors for me too!!:duck:

[Bruce Day]

The name is familiar Austin. Plattsburg was known more as an FB-111 base, although it was Buffs earlier.

AZ has great quail hunting but as DRat says, a person has to want to walk, the terrain isn't easy and most people can't do it. I'll be at White Sands NM for the Bataan Death March Memorial Marathon 3/21 if anyone else wants to have a little stroll for 26 miles, then perhaps head west to check out quail ground. Steve Bodio lives over at Magdalena, not that far.

[Francis Morin]

I've lost track of Steve Bodio- also my USMC buddy John Hewitt- from the "Old GSJ" days--if you see Steve, say "Hi" for me. Not surprised you participate in the Battan DM memorial--one way to always remember the atrocities of the Pacific Theatre WW11--and honor those who feel prey to Japan's move for Imperialism and control of the Pacific-:bigbye:

[Bruce Day]

Francis, I lived in Germany as a kid as neighbors to the Yeager's while Capt Yeager was in F 86's at Ramstein. His son and I are the same age and Yeager used to throw footballs for us kids.

Re Japan, now countries are smarter about conquering. They just buy the US, like China has been buying our government bonds, because we need more and more money for social services. They will be in a position to dictate to us soon.

[Francis Morin]

Sure have read many stories about Gen. Yeager-what a pilot-- The old 1960's comment from Nikita K. from "Russia- Without Love" of-- "We will bury you" and we built bomb shelters in the backyard and had "duck and cover" drills in grade schools- Possibly what old Nicky- "Let me use my shoe for a gavel" Kruschev really meant was "We will bury you in our technology and you'll spend years and billions trying to get up to our speed"__:cool:

[Dean Romig]

I remember those school days well Francis. Exercises (in futility) of ducking under one's desk to protect us from a nuclear blast... what a joke! ...but who knew? Certainly those in charge would never tell us that we would simply burn to a crisp in the second wave. The shock wave would be first, then would come the heat wave... How innocent we all were in those days - would that we were still so :(

[Bill Murphy]

I don't care, Dean. When I see the light, I'm getting the hell under my desk.

[Bruce Day]

We did duck and cover exercises at Offutt AFB in Nebraska, home of Strategic Air Command headquarters and location the SAC Command Post, at Ellsworth AFB in SoDak, home of a nuclear bomber wing and at Vandenberg AFB, Ca., home of the 1st Strategic Missile Wing, all with nuclear weapons and prime targets. The schools were each about one mile from ground zero. Go figure.

[Dean Romig]

It's all about not wanting to create panic in the streets if we knew the truth. Why else have we never been told the truth about Area 51 . . . :shock:

[Bruce Day]

Many, many fights along its edges at altitude. Just experimental, new and sensitive aircraft is all. No aliens, there are stranger people among the civilian populace.

[Francis Morin]

Ah yes- those Ike "Happy Days"- but Sputnik sure was a wake-up call, later the Bay of Piggies in "Cuber"-- I grew up loving MAD magazine and all the parodies and spoofs they ran- one I recall was their spin on the old Chicago based (I think) novelty company Johnson & Smith- they rephrased it as "Smithson-John" or something like that and were hawking an A-Bomb detector-- ad went something like this, if memory serves: "Now you too can be prepared for a nuclear attack- this sturdy little device will sound a loud and shrill alarm when a A-bomb goes off within 50 feet (or was it 50 yards)? $2.95 postage paid to your door--:bigbye: