No Birds in North West Georgia?

[Gerald McPherson]

Greetings Everyone; I turned 65 last month. I hunted quail until age 50 with older friends that passed on one by one.We enjoyed many many days afield. We always had a fair number of birds, one or two to five or six coveys a day. We could kill enough to keep it interesting for us and the dogs. About two years ago a acquired a Brittany pup and thought I would try it again alone although some folks were telling me that birds were scarce. I'm in the second season now with Scooter and I'm finding nothing but a woodcock or two now and then and only one today that I missed. I have a place to hunt that looks as good as it gets in these parts but no quail. found one covey last year but flew across the Eustanaulle river (if spelled correctly). I am seeing coyote poop every where. Do you think this is whats happening to our quail? This 200 acres plus about 100 more that joins it that I am hunting should have eight or ten coveys. I am trying to attach some pics. Looks like I may be dreaming. I just don't get turned on by releasing birds. That seems like hideing your own Easter Eggs and I'm not ready for that yet. Anyone else finding this in the South East? Please don't tell me my dog ain't no good.
I once told an old friend that I didn't know which I enjoyed the most braging on mine or throwing off on his. Happy New Year. Gerald
P.S. I made about 40 pics today. The first is where I began and the last is where I stopped. No Birds: :banghead:

[Bruce Day]

Coyotes and bobcats are the likely culprits.

[Dean Romig]

Opossums, raccoons, hawks (acipiters probably), owls, feral housecats . . . the list is long and devastating to ground-nesting birds. This is a very common phenomenon in the Northeast too around population centers where there is no such thing as predator control, the discharge of firearms being illegal within the city limits of many, many towns and it seems every other household has at least one cat. In our lifetimes it will never be like it once was not so very long ago.

[Ben Yarian]

It is a shame. I am sure the Pa pheasant was affected simillarly, as well a by habitat lose. I have also noticed the grouse were I hunt them are spending more time in trees, during the day. I assume that is because of the large numbers of fox and cyote in the area. Thank goodness they are addaptable(grouse that is).

Ben

[Robin Lewis]

I hunt PA, NH and VT and I have noticed a change in the last 15 years or so. The coyote population for some reason has exploded. For obvious reasons the bird of prey population is way up, soon they will need to start controlling them too; that will be something to watch! I see more red fox killed on the road and even see some moving during the day so I assume their numbers are up.

I am seeing fewer raccoon, skunk and opossum sign? Are the coyote keeping their numbers down too? They are hard on nests but I suppose the coyote's are too.

There is a lot of competition out their for our game birds. Just my observations.

[Larry Frey]

Robin,
I think for those of us in the northeast the reintroduction of the turkeys is the main reason for the number of coyotes in our area. The other mammal that is doing a job on the birds is the Fisher. I see one almost every time I’m deer hunting and with their ability to climb trees they are especially tough on the turkey population. In CT. we can and do shoot coyotes year round but the Fishers are somewhat protected. I believe there is a short trapping season but no shooting.

[E Robert Fabian]

That brings up a good question, why are we protecting a non indigenous species like the Fisher cat, that some numbnut thought was going to reduce the porcupine population.
My Grandfather believed anything competing for game had to go including birds of pray, which I think was shared by most in those days.

[Gerald McPherson]

Last night I heard coyotes shortly after dark close by. Sometimes it sounds like there are hundreds. They get a calf of goat now and then.I have heard of one killed that weighed 85 lbs. This morning I saw a flock of about 20 turkeys. Some people think fire ants are realy hurting the quail. I have known a hawk to get one on the covey rise and also a rabbit the dogs were running. My Dad of late once told me about 2 coveys that were around all of life on his Dad's place. A friend my age tells me he has never even seen a Bob White. I read on different forums that some areas of the country still have good numbers. I wonder if they can tell any difference now compared to 25 years ago. Gerald

[Dean Romig]

Don't worry about all the predatory species who's numbers are on the rise everywhere - as soon as prey species numbers are reduced to barely enough to propogate the species the predators will die off of disease and starvation allowing gamebirds and the like to repopulate to huntable numbers once again. I figure this will take thirty or forty years and our children and grandchildren will enjoy hunting like we once knew . . . as long as we still have a 2nd Ammendment :shock:

[Dale Meyer]

Gerald, you surely aren't unique in Georgia with scarce game birds. Here in Pa. we once had lots of wild pheasants. Today, there are almost none reproducing in the wild. The only pheasants in many areas are those pen-raised and released by the Game Commission just before the season opens.

Among the reasons for this demise in wild birds is the outlawing of ddt in about 1972 which led to an explosion in the predator population, modern clean farming practices which elimated much of the fence-row cover, and the expansion of suburban housing developments.

In my opinion, perhaps the most devastating loss to pheasant populations here in Pa. was the result of a disease commonly called the "chicken flu". This was a virus infecting vast numbers of flocks of chickens during the mid-70's. Huge numbers of chickens were destroyed in an effort to control the spread of this disease. This disease apparently spread to wild game bird populations as well. I worked at a state mental hospital in Harrisburg where we had huge numbers of pheasants present on our property which covered near to a thousand acres of prime phesant habitat. During the winter in about 1975, we discovered literally piles of dead pheasants in every patch of cover we investigated. Wild pheasant populations dwindled and became almost non existent withiln ten years. It is possible that this disease was spread throughout the eastern wild game bird populations. I haven't noticed such a profound effect in the grouse population as among pheasants and quail. The habitat preferences are distinctly different among grouse and pheasants and quail.

Whatever the cause, noone can deny that the populations of most game bird populations in the east have plumetted. In many areas sightings of turkeys are more common that pheasants today.

[Richard Morrison]

Here in NC wild quail are virtually nonexistant.

We too have plenty of predators including coyote. In spite of this, the turkey population is growing. We have open season on them in all 100 counties.

Some of my from quail hunter friends believe the turkey population has contributed to the quail disappearance. The thought is that turkeys search all day for food. A nest of quail eggs would be a treat. I haven't been able to get a wildlife biologist agree to this.

[E Robert Fabian]

I have deer hunted up state NY for a few years and have heard the locals refer to the turkey as a ground vulture, that said the new one around here is they are having a impact on the grouse, I think they are just filling in the void. I would say for the Grouse it's equal parts of lack of prime habitat, ground and winged predator's, and the fact that they unable to adapt to suburbia. All they have to do is learn to eat out of the local bird feeder if not they will probably go the way of the Black duck, where the Mallard has done well invading any park pond they can find.

Simple adapt or go the the way of the Dodo

[Dean Romig]

I have not witnessed any impact of the turkey on ruffed grouse populations where I hunt in Vermont. It is very common to see flocks of turkeys there numbering over 100 at certain times of the year but normally about two-dozen at any time. We can kill two bearded birds in the spring hunt and one of either sex in the fall. The ruffed grouse populations there seem to fluctuate in accordance with the hawk and barred owl population and this, I believe, is the standard throughout the range of the ruffed grouse.

[John Dallas]

Bruce - Do your New England grouse populations cycle on a 7 year rhythm? That's the norm here in Michigan. This year was supposed to be on the high peak, but most people I know (except Jay Gardner, and who could ever question his veracity?) found birds to be scarce this year. No one understands the reason for the cycle, but even the DNR professionals concede that there is a cyclicality to grouse.

[Gerald McPherson]

This morning I saw a large hawk with a dead crow and 2 other crows chaseing him as he flew away. I too have always heard it said that the quail numbers did reach a max every 10 years. I am sure that the quail has evolved over the years in their reactions. 40 ago years I remember seeing them fly a short distance set their wings and go down but over the years they will now fly a quarter of a mile or more. I once flushed a covey in some cleared land that went out of sight over a distant hill and as I followed them I met a dear hunter and ask if he saw them come over the hill. He said yes. I asked where they went down and he said they didn't they were still going when they went out of sight over the next hill. I saw a rabbit while rabbit hunting with dogs in South Georgia come out in a field edge and run several hundred yards before going back in the brush. I think mabe that was how he had survived the coyotes. They don't seem to run in small circles anymore.
I have decided to give up trying to hunt wild quail. Yesterday I sold Scooter to a hunting preserve. He will see more birds there in a day than he would in a year in the wild. It was sad for me but it will be much better for him. I will still shoot the crap out of doves and crows and anything else that I think might hurt the quail. Happy New Year Everyone. Gerald:bigbye:

[Gerald McPherson]

I saw a flock of 26 turkeys this morning grazing along a field edge. The area they covered as they went along was about 30 yards wide. If they do indeed eat quail eggs it would be hard for them to miss being out there seven days a week 365 days a year. I can see how they could do a lot of damage. Over a few years that would wipe out many a covey. I also saw a coyote coming out of a Wendy's parking lot Thursday night. I heard there was a pack of them in Walmart's parking area the next day. Good Grief!!!!
Gerald

[Francis Morin]

[QUOTE=Gerald McPherson;10242]This morning I saw a large hawk with a dead crow and 2 other crows chaseing him as he flew away. I too have always heard it said that the quail numbers did reach a max every 10 years. I am sure that the quail has evolved over the years in their reactions. 40 ago years I remember seeing them fly a short distance set their wings and go down but over the years they will now fly a quarter of a mile or more. I once flushed a covey in some cleared land that went out of sight over a distant hill and as I followed them I met a dear hunter and ask if he saw them come over the hill. He said yes. I asked where they went down and he said they didn't they were still going when they went out of sight over the next hill. I saw a rabbit while rabbit hunting with dogs in South Georgia come out in a field edge and run several hundred yards before going back in the brush. I think mabe that was how he had survived the coyotes. They don't seem to run in small circles anymore.
I have decided to give up trying to hunt wild quail. Yesterday I sold Scooter to a hunting preserve. He will see more birds there in a day than he would in a year in the wild. It was sad for me but it will be much better for him. I will still shoot the crap out of doves and crows and anything else that I think might hurt the quail. Happy New Year Everyone. Gerald:bigbye:-- Sad indeed that a man who grew up hunting "Gent'man Bob" borrowing from my favorite writer Robert C. Ruark here- now finds the quail population so decimated, from land development, predators, loss of habitat, etc.

I recall as a boy both my Father and GrandFather telling me, after a great day with pheasants and maybe ducks on the many private farms we had access to-- words like this: "Son, enjoy this while you can, because someday when you come back here, the farm will be gone and a shopping mall will have taken over this land"-- Sad, but a true prophesy indeed.

Two of the Clubs where I shoot pheasants are located on older farms, and as I am also an avid varmint hunter, there is a great increase in the hawk and avaian presence there (and let me be clear- I don't shoot hawks or accipiters) but also an increase in coyotes and foxes- and let me be also clear- those I shoot on sight-and not for the pelts--

Dean is also right, the encroachment of coyotes (and deer and turkeys) into suburban areas where discharge of firearms is prohibited, is also a part of the problem. I also agree that shooting pen-raised quail cannot be the same as hunting native birds back in the pre-WW11 South, or even better, pre WW1 era-- and pen raised pheasants are a substitute, a better than nothing bird, and I would never compare shooting at such clubs that release them to hunting native birds in KS, SD, ND, NE or MT- (as I have a few times in the past seasons)--

Also note I said "shooting" pen raised birds, and not 'hunting"- not that a preserve is a 100% guarantee- you can miss, the dog(s) can have an off day, the birds can spook and run out ahead of the dog just as native birds do. But just like the gentleman from GA who decries the lack of the huntable numbers of quail from his early years, I feel the same pang about the pheasants of my boyhood days afield.

And as a Sponsor member of DU and PF, I know that legal hunting seasons on native game birds are not the cause, regardless of the amount of birds harvested. Hunter's $ and hard work in groups like these and many others (RGS, Quail and Turkey groups, etc.) are also part of the balance we have, cyclic perhaps, I can't say. I just hope my Grandsons will be able to hunt waterfowl and game birds and share a passion for good dogs and fine guns as I have had the good fortune to know all my life..

[Jack Cronkhite]

From my experience with wild pheasant in Saskatchewan and Alberta (1960 to date), habitat is the greatest factor (if there is nowhere to live it is difficult to thrive) The next factor is spring weather (too wet is a real problem for hatchlings or even hatching) then winter weather (blizzards that cover habitat with deep hard-crusted snow suffocate many birds and make feeding very difficult for the others). Predation (Natural and Parker-like) accounts for a few more. As a result (this from reading), the average life span of wild pheasant is approximately 9 months i.e. not even one breeding cycle. That said, if there is good habitat, good food and water, the population sustains itself. A sufficient population of wild birds can usually overcome most issues but never loss of habitat.

[Richard Morrison]

Some of our quail are taken by all the predation mentioned above but, nothing decimates like loss of habitat.

Here, in the South, farming practices have changed so much in the past years wildlife has a difficult go. Wheat is usally planted in the fall and when havested the following summer soybeans are planted and harvested in the fall. Double cropping keeps the farms solvent but doesn't provide much cover for nesting.

Another thing,not mentioned,is the tractor mounted rotary mower. Every farm has one and owner uses it to keep fence rows and field edges clean. I tell the folks at QF this is where we need to start - incenting the farm operators to stop needless mowing.

[Ed Blake]

Coyotes will thin out the small predator population like 'possums, skunks, and cats. While no doubt bad news for the gamebirds, they probably don't make as much of an impact as the other predators. Loss of cover and hawks are the biggest culprits in my mind. Those little "Blue Racers" flying over the corn and sunflower patch in late summer and early fall make my trigger finger itch.

[Gerald McPherson]

I saw the flock of turkeys Yesterday and again this morning. They are roaming far and wide. I know of 3 flocks nearby. I may have to just change which birds I hunt. I hear they are better than domestic turkeys sold in the stores. Just 1 would put more food on the table than a whole season of quail hunting.With the economy like it is I could save money on gas and shells. I just received my free senior liesons so its not all gloom and doom. Gerald.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

The wild quail have disappeared from nearly their entire range east of the Mississippi. There were still a few wild birds in Southern Illinois when I was a kid but by the time I got old enough to hunt all the folks in my family had stopped even keeping dogs.

I think it's predation and farm chemicals that have done it to the quail and the pheasants here in the East. Think about when they really started spraying hard, that's about the time the game birds and rabbits began to disappear.


Destry

[charlie cleveland]

there very few wild quail left here in north mississippi.in aall of my hunting and being outdoors this season i have only seen i small covey and iwas in my car driving and they flew acrossthe road in front of me. in my opinion chemicals predators loss of habitathawks and such have taken there share of the quail. some one posted a statment i read the other day that got me to thinking in a differnt way. he stated that several years back that chickens had got infected with some kind of viruss that killed them by the thousands.he said they had avery large phezant population.soon they found phezantsdead by the hundreds.in a few years they had no phezants to hunt. all had been killed by this chicken flu. so if phezants could die from the chicken flu. maybe the quail also have caught this same flu. what do you guys think. sure would like to seea few quail again. i did not hear a bobwhite whistle this past spring. charlie

[Gerald McPherson]

Since I posted this thread I have been seeing things. Yesterday I saw a hawk kill a bird in the air. It fell in the street in front of my truck. The hawk then scooped it up and flew away with it. I almost hit the hawk. That brought to mind seeing an eagle dive down from way up and take a large fish from Lake Allatoona. These birds are precision killers and are now protected.They are much better at what they do than we are with our old Parkers. I think I once saw an old Parker ad in which a man was after a chicken hawk shouting "Tarnation". All things considered I guess the little quail has survived pretty well. How much longer I don't know.Gerald

[charlie cleveland]

does any one have any suggestions on how to help the wild quail make a comeback.i sure would like to hear some suggestions. charlie

[Richard Morrison]

My suggestion is to first join Quail Forever (QF) or some other group focused on the establishment of quail and to inform your congressional representative of your concern about the quail population.

QF is a part of Pheasants Forever (PF) and provides education and establishment of habitat. It is politically active and has been influentional in getting the CRP extended and increased primarily through PF.

It won't be easy but, without the sportmen's help, the situation will not get any better.

Richard

[charlie cleveland]

thanks for the info richard i will look into joining a cluband for sure will call my representive.your right if we hunrers do not try and help the little bird that has given more to us than we have to itthen it is probably doomed. if i dont try and help the quail make a come back then i have no right to complain.thanks again.we have tried turning loose penned raised quail but so far no wild cobeys have come from them. charlie

[Bruce Day]

Joining Quail Forever is certainly a good start. That and encouraging state fish and game departments to promote quail populations. We have an excellent program in Missouri and the other day Charlie Herzog mentioned that he was finding wild coveys on the eastern side of the state. We do well in the western side and even better on the Great Plains. The best thing a person can do is to become involved. The birds can come back. And shoot those nasty furry things that eat quail. They are pretty good at escaping winged predators.

[Francis Morin]

Outrunning predators- huum-- even the "Airborne patrols?"" Never yet have a seen a feral cat, coyote or fox outrun a 50 grain Hornady from my (or other's) .220Swift or other "Rapid Time delivery" cartridge, scope and rifle-

We need what I read that the British have for their birds- later for their driven shoots- game keepers who are armed, patrol and set traps and kill off all the four legged furry bird and nest destroyers. A bounty on Coyotes would be a very good start-:rolleyes:

[Mike Shepherd]

This website is about some folks doing research on BobWhites. It is primarily about Southwestern ranch Bob White.

http://www.quailresearch.org/

We currently have good quail but we went through a period of 5 or 6 years where it was awful. Maybe about 1990 is when it started. When they came back you couldn't find a green broke pup within 200 miles, much less a finished birddog. Everybody had gotten out of birddogs. I can get you all you want now though.

Best,

Mike

Edit - I think the most interesting information is in the newsletter section.

[Gerald McPherson]

Thanks Mike; That sure is an interesting site. It sure sounds like the game birds are in trouble all over the south and this may be just be the begining. I understand that the deer herd here was wiped out in the early years of the last century. I know an old man who told me he helped haul the first load from up north to restock them about 60 years ago. We have to many of them now.There were so many in a nearby state park a few years that they held a mass killing by sharp shooters. Maybe there is hope for the bobwhite but not in my lifetime. I sure wish deer tasted like fried chicken or quail.Again good reading. Thanks. Gerald

[Dean Romig]

I wish deer would hold to a pointing dog :shock:

[Mike Shepherd]

You are welcome Gerald.

All of my quail leases have coons, see coon scat everywhere I go. I have five bird dogs and they live in town with us. If I could reach critical mass in dogs like I have in doubleguns maybe I could squeeze a couple of coon dogs in without her noticing. Right now she would immediately pick up there were two extra dogs running around the house.

And Dean I would hunt anything that would hold for a pointing dog.

Best,

Mike

[Gerald McPherson]

Hey Guys; I remember my Grandad telling a story about his dogs pointing a couple of bedded dear. How about that? Gerald

[Dean Romig]

That's a good start Gerald, did Grandad nurture that trait?

[John Dallas]

Friend of mine's German Shorthair pointed a possum and blue jay in the same hunt

[Gerald McPherson]

Dean; No. He was a bird killing machine. One of his old hunting pals told me he rarely missed a shot. I took after the other side of the family. I rarely ever hit one. Once I used his old pump gun and let a friend use mine to go huunting with me. I killed 5 birds on the covey rise, 3 first shot, 2 second, and one of us killed a late riseing bird. Afterwards he killed a single and we quit on that covey. John; I once owned a little white pointer that had the same name as my little white wife Judy. Judy the dog liked to bark at night. Judy the wife likes to fight. Wink!!!! When I raised the window and shouted SHUTUP JUDY it hit the fan. Anyway once while hunting Judy the dog did one of her stylish points in a very birdy looking place.When we walked in to make the flush a possum rise happened instead. As he climed up a pine Roy my huntin pal looked at me and said them possum dogs are high. Judy the dog did not live at our house very long but Judy the wife is still with me. Thank GOD. Don't get me started on old birddog stories. Gerald

PS; We don't hear many little wife stories on this site do we????

[Dean Romig]

PS; We don't hear many little wife stories on this site do we????

Only in PMs Gerald . . . only in PMs :rolleyes: