NO LEAD, NO POWDER AVAILABLE

[Pete Lester]

I just stopped at my local dealer and it seems the ammo shortage has now spilled over into shotgun reloading components. According to this dealer no bagged lead shot will be available in the next 3 months minimum. The distributor told him their backorders are in the millions of pounds. No common target powders, 700x, Red Dot, Green Dot, etc are available, no information regarding when they will be available again. Wads and some primer brands remain available, Win 209's primers were still available but the dealer said he feels it is a case of who knows for how long.

I find it hard to believe hoarding has reached this level given the millions of factory and reloaded shotgun target ammunition is expended each year.

When I got home I checked several on-line distributors, Ballistic Products, Precision Reloading and Gamaliel for powder availability, again all common target powders are out of stock.

[Larry Frey]

Pete,
It is almost impossible to get anything right now for pistol or shot shell reloading. Fortunately I had stocked up with my shot shell supplies before it got too crazy. I have over 2k shells loaded and enough materials for another 4k. I hope by the time Deb and I burn up these rounds things will be more readily available once again. I have pistol primers on backorder till June but I'm not holding my breath on that delivery.

[Pete Lester]

I have quite a bit on hand as well but it's very easy for me to go through 4K shotgun shells on targets and another 1500+ plus on crows in a year.

It is unsettling that we don't know how long the shortage will last. I would give up the clay pigeon shooting if I have to so as to extend my ammo supply for hunting. The situation is not good, it seems it will surely impact participation in organized and recreational shooting this year across the country.

[Brian Dudley]

Finding primers anywhere local for me has been near impossible. And most outlets online are out too. The ones that have any charge a hazmat fee for handling.

This is an odd one... Ballistic products has 209 primers and they charge a $25 fee for primers and power if shipped by ground or air. But... They will ship primed hulls by ground with no fee. Can't figure that out.

[Pete Lester]

I just returned from the Kittery Trading Post, a large dealer/retailer in the shooting sports in New England. There I found a few bags of shot priced at $49.99. They have no idea when more will come in. Powders for reloading were very scarce, very little was available for shotgun target shells, no Red Dot, Clay Dot, 700X etc. A few 1lb bottles of Green Dot and SR7625 were available, limit 2lbs per customer. A few Fed 209A primers were there in loose 100 packs. Same with CCI 209 Magnum primers. There was big pile of Win 209 primers in 1000 packs for 45.99.

I also spoke to one of the long time managers in the shooting sports department. He informed me the information he has been given by those in the industry is the lack of availability and shortage of ammunition and reloading supplies will persist for the next 22 to 26 months.

[Mills Morrison]

RST's online ordering system was down today and when I called I got the answering machine. I will try again, but hope they have not been affected as well

[Paul Stafford]

Supplies here in Michigan are non existent. Luckily, our gun club has a decent supply but even they had to put a limit on purchase amounts. If you dont have it now it will be tough to shoot the summer into fall.

[Jerry Harlow]

At those prices for shot, how long can it be before they start recovering shot from skeet and trap fields? I've used it in the past when available and wish it was again.

[Paul Stafford]

We had some reclaim here a few months ago but it sold quick!

[Rich Anderson]

I talked to a friend who could get shot at $42/bag. I'm on a E-Mail notification from two mail order places for Sr7625 and H4895 in 8lb cans. I bought two 1ld cans of 7625 just to have it for 16ga shells.

Pete one of the local sporting goods stores had some of the powders you mentioned. PM me your cell phone and when I get up that way if they have them I can pick you up some and bring it to Hausmanns.

[Pete Lester]

I don't believe I have ever been accused of being a conspiracy theorist. However as the old saying goes, just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they are not actually out to get you.

I think the enormous quantities of small arms ammunition along with the governments priority status has in large part helped fuel this shortage.

http://www.infowars.com/dhs-to-buy-360000-more-rounds-of-hollow-point-ammunition/

http://offgridsurvival.com/ammoshortage-signofthingstocome/

[Mills Morrison]

I don't understand the purpose behind the conspiracy and that makes me more nervous.

[Pete Lester]

Just to see what was going on I put the prices for what is currently available in my area for available reloading components and regardless of shot size it comes to $6.40 a box for 1 1/8 once loads, plus tax. The same store, KTP, has Federal brand target loads priced at $64.99 plus tax per flat (10 boxes).

Currently there are auctions on Gunbroker.com where dealers are selling 16 pounds of IMR-700x for $475 plus $48.00 shipping. That is near $33 a pound. This is nuts.

[John Campbell]

The dealer I visited today said it would probably be a year before things return to "normal."

"It's like it was four years ago - only five times worse," he said.

For me, things won't be "normal" again until 2016. I hope.

BTW, I bought 8 lbs of Extra Lite from him for $99.

[Dave Noreen]

I have just set up and started reloading again after several years of using many flats of $49 Federal 12- and 20-gauges and working down my stock of reloads. I've found plenty of the powders I use -- Clays, International, American Select, Lil' Gun, and Universal. WSF seems a bit hard to find. Likewise I've found the wads I use. My club has lead at $101 for three bags. They are rationing it out at three bags per week per member. There seems to be plenty of Federal, Fiochi and CCI primers around. I prefer Remington primers, as they seem to agree with many of my old doubles, and they are up to $49.90 a brick when you can find them!! Winchester 209s seem non-existant.

[Paul Stafford]

We have Chedites and Win209's primers at our club, but the piles of cases (5000) are shrinking every week. My father and I both bought enough to get us through till the end of the year. We shoot skeet every weekend, and when its warm here in Michigan even more.

[Craig Larter]

I just purchased 5000 WW 209 primers (can't find Remington )and have 16lbs of 7625------ but I can't get lead shot.
I am calling Beikirch's my local dealer they are expecting lead soon. I was told they have $700,000. of ammo backordered and expect the market to return to normal the summer of 2014!!! Crazy!!

[Dave Purnell]

I just returned from the Kittery Trading Post, a large dealer/retailer in the shooting sports in New England. There I found a few bags of shot priced at $49.99. They have no idea when more will come in. Powders for reloading were very scarce, very little was available for shotgun target shells, no Red Dot, Clay Dot, 700X etc. A few 1lb bottles of Green Dot and SR7625 were available, limit 2lbs per customer. A few Fed 209A primers were there in loose 100 packs. Same with CCI 209 Magnum primers. There was big pile of Win 209 primers in 1000 packs for 45.99.

I also spoke to one of the long time managers in the shooting sports department. He informed me the information he has been given by those in the industry is the lack of availability and shortage of ammunition and reloading supplies will persist for the next 22 to 26 months.

Conspiracy? No conspiracy here, it's obvious unless you are naieve, blind, or possibility part of it. What happens in 22 to 26 months? Mid term elections come to mind. It's no secret that the current administration is working toward attaining a super majority. If they are successful, well the ammo shortage will just make the next step easier. If Boehner manages to hold onto the House, the left still wins, just not as big. As the former White House Chief of Staff let slip four years ago, "Never let a good crisis go to waste".

[Mark Ouellette]

I'm usually stocked up but this thread motivated me to become a hoarder! :bigbye:

[Fred Preston]

Went to the Fin today to get some PB and Unique for some soft shooting, especially for my new light weight 16 SW. I expected shortages, but most folks aren't real interested in what I am. Ther was no Unique and I got the last two ahort pints (14oz) of PB. There were a couple of others shopping and I mention that the shelves were pretty bare; they responded "there's nothing left in Columbus". Would have liked go have gotten another K of 209s, but none to be had.

[Bill Murphy]

Just bought 16 pounds of Unique and 8 pounds of Red Dot. The solution to this problem is to start shooting your .410s. We just bought Federal Top Guns for $56.50 a flat, up from $50.00. Unfortunately, there were 20s but no 12s. WW209s were being rationed.

[Pete Lester]

Conspiracy? No conspiracy here, it's obvious unless you are naieve, blind, or possibility part of it. What happens in 22 to 26 months? Mid term elections come to mind. It's no secret that the current administration is working toward attaining a super majority. If they are successful, well the ammo shortage will just make the next step easier. If Boehner manages to hold onto the House, the left still wins, just not as big. As the former White House Chief of Staff let slip four years ago, "Never let a good crisis go to waste".

Whether this a random result of current events and politics or something planned and deliberate, if it does not resolve itself soon it has the potential to hurt the entire gamut of firearm sports, the bottom lines of gun clubs and dealers and ultimately the sale of firearms. If you were looking at a sale flyer advertising a great buy on a new 9mm pistol, are you going to buy it an any price if retailer has no ammo for it?

I understood the run on ammo for so called assault rifles such as .223, but to find this shortage to be nationwide on shotgun target load components and 22LR is puzzling. Hoarding to some extent, and a shift by the manufacturers to fill all the gov't orders is probably to blame. I have not been doing this for as long as some of you but I been doing it for 40 years, I have never seen anything close to this situation.

[John Campbell]

The cause of all this is the result of Nov. 7, 2012.
After the previous Presidential election there was a similar run -- but nothing like this. With luck, things might get better by Fall. I certainly hope so. But I fear for all the shooting sports for the next few years to come.

[Paul Harm]

Well I live in Michigan and our club orders from Ohio. I just ordered a ton of shot - $39/bag and any powder, wads, and Win or Cheddite primers- [ 35,000 primers ] . We ordered 700X, Clay Dot, Red Dot, Promo, Clays, just about any powder one would want. Far as I'm concerned there is NO shortage of anything. Someone is getting feed a line of sh**. The prices of primers and wads went up a little, but not much. Paul

[Dave Purnell]

Paul, that's very good news to hear. Let us know when you get delivery.

[Rich Anderson]

If and when it comes is the big question. Was the shot just for the club or did the members order supplies? Please PM me with the info as our local club needs shot as well. I haven't found powder in 8lb cans anywhere and just try to buy a box of 9mm or 45ACP or .22LR impossible :cuss::banghead:

[John Campbell]

I get my components from a very well known Ohio supplier that trucks a lot of this stuff to Michigan. And unless the owner of that firm is lying to me, no one is being handed a line of anything. Except for the truth.

[Ken Descovich]

My local gun store has about 60 25# bags of reclaimed shot for sale @ $30.00 a bag, I believe they are a mixture of #8 and #7.5 size shot. I dont know how the shipping could be handled on this but I would be willing to help anyone needing any.

Ken

[Pete Lester]

My local gun store has about 60 25# bags of reclaimed shot for sale @ $30.00 a bag, I believe they are a mixture of #8 and #7.5 size shot. I dont know how the shipping could be handled on this but I would be willing to help anyone needing any.

Ken

Probably the most economical way to ship lead shot is via USPS large flat rate box. There is a 70lb limit, cost is $18.55 anywhere in the US.

[Paul Stafford]

We have a very large club in southeastern Michigan, (DSC) and we receive product from what I asume to be the same ohio supplier. We are getting lead, but 8lb, and 4lb containers of powder is not possible. They take the orders but are all backordered. 1lb containers are available in some varieties. They ordered gun club flats and no stock available.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Stopped at a local gun shop that isnt known for reloading supplies and found 1 lb Red dot, 3lbs Universal, and 2 lbs Green Dot and bought them all. The owner said he had just sold a 4 pounder for $80 not more than 5 min before I walked in. He also had some 7625, e3, and titewad--went home and looked up some loads and may go back tomorrow and buy what I can. Lead shot is still available at the local Cabelas but is $49/ bag.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Went.back to the little gun store today and bought Titewad for $18/lb. They also had shot for $42/bag--local Cabelas is $50.Their wads were cheaper also. Wanted #8 shot or 71/2, but they had 7's and 8 1/2 so got one of each.

[John Farrell]

The feeding frenzy of the crazies has gone over the edge this time. The deluge of robocalls from the NRA is probably not helping the situation. Every time one of the hoarders gets a call he/she probably runs right out and adds to the stockpile in the basement or in the bunker. I get a minimum of two NRA calls a day from robo-dialers all over the country. The fact that I talked to Joe in Left Armpit, TX about the legislation being proposed in the Senate has no affect on the robo-dialers in UT, MD, CA, or SC or anywhere else.

From the comments being posted here there is probably no solution until the hoarders get their fill - or run out of credit card reserves. Or the NRA runs out of money to pay for the phone calls.

The ultimate negative of all this is the people interested in sports shooting, trap, skeet, sportclays and the like will have to park their equipment until reason returns to the scene.

[Bill Murphy]

My last 8 pound containers of Unique and Red Dot were $98.10 each. Primers are going to be the problem for most of us.

[Frank Srebro]

Well we all have our crystal balls but gents, it's much worse than I've ever seen it. I usually plan for the worst while hoping for the best so I took a ride to a large reloading distributor today and got some additional supples for myself and a few friends. That's 35 bags of West Coast magnum shot, 53 pounds of powder, 17,000 primers and 10,000 wads. The owner was joking with me, he asked if I had explosives placards for the Hummer. He only had 2 cards of Remington primers and I was able to talk him out of one (5000). Winchester primers allocated 1000 per customer no matter how much stuff you bought. I got the last 8# bottles of PB and 7625 that were in stock, all the smaller ones were sold out. A friend wanted Clays powder and it was out of stock, he switched to Clay Dot. I wanted some Herco... out of stock and no word on when more would be available. The West Coast magnum was $38.50 per bag plus 6% for the state coffers. You wanna see me on the cell with 4 friends calling and texting while I was in the warehouse checking out the powders and primer inventories. :rolleyes:

http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b450/silvers897/IMG_2522_zps1a70fa3e.jpg

[Rich Anderson]

Do I detect an 8lb can of 20/28? I have 5lbs of it and want to work up a low pressure 2 1/2 in 20ga load but can find no data. Can we be friends? that big can of 7625 is elusive as I have bought 6 1lb cans.

I went to order Hornady V-Max for the 223,22/250,243 & 25WSSM and only got the 25WSSM and I bought the last 7 boxes they had. Hind site being what it is I splurged last summer and bought 10,000 Win 209 and CCI large and small rifle primers. I'm glad I did now.

[E Robert Fabian]

I'll trade a 209 primer for 15 grs. of 700X.

[Frank Srebro]

Rich, good eyes. The 20/28 is for a friend "Oskar" who's a member. I haven't used it myself so I can't help with a recipe. E.R., yes there's a 8 pounder of 700X in there.

[mike covington]

Rich, I'm guessing you have checked Alliant's site for the 20/28 loads? If so then you've seen they only list 2 3/4" hulls, which is what I load for my two 20s. Ever done any roll crimping? What are the hulls, primers, wads, shot weight you want to try?

Be glad to help if I can.

Mike

[Rich Anderson]

Thanks Mike. I'll use the RST Hull which I believe is a chedditte hull a TC 20 wad from Ballistic Products and win 209 primers and 7/8ths of shot. I have been using 17gr of Longshot but have been told the virtues of 20/28 and as its a dual purpose powder for both guages I thought I'd give it a try.

[Paul Harm]

We order from Dawsons - no problem with any powder,shot, wads. Was told the Cheddites weren't in but we can get Noble Sport if Cheddites don't come in by next week. I believe the big run is on pistol and rifle stuff which could effect primers, but that's about all. Our order is through the club for members.

[Paul Harm]

We pay $105/8#700X - Promo $86/8# - Cheddites or Noble Sport $110/5000 - shot 39.50 a bag - wads are in the $86 range for 5000 depending on the type. I don't know what I'd do if I had to pay the higher prices some of you are quoting. The wife and I shot over 22,000 shells a year. Guess I'd really have to cut back.

[Larry Frey]

The wife and I shot over 22,000 shells a year.

:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

[Paul Harm]

Larry, that's only 18 boxes a week - when the daughter and granddaughter were shooting I was reloading close to 40 boxes a week. Glad that's over.

[Dave Suponski]

Paul, You are "Da man". With that volume of shooting do you have a Tri-Axle just back up to your garage and dump a few ton's of shot?.....:rotf:

[John Dallas]

My son-in-law and two grandsons shot about 30,000 targets last year. :eek: It's none of my business, but I hope he's providing for my daughter and the kids' college.

[Paul Harm]

Sounds like his priories are in order. Keep em busy, less time for mischief. Dave, you'd think I'd learn something with that much shooting but NO. We spend too much time teasing each other.

[paul stafford jr]

our club is out of most powder only a few boxes of primers left. but we do have a good supply of Remington target loads. lead is in good supply at 46.00 a bag. the price of shot is killing me. I like to shoot so all I can do is complain.

[Paul Harm]

Our order came in - everything but a can or two of pistol powder. We usually get between 6 and 7000 $ worth of shotgun reloading supplies. Everything had gone up a bit - $4 for a brick of primers, 3 or $4 for 5000 wads, shot was 39.50 a bag. It doesn't seem all that long ago I could buy 20 bags of shot for under $400. How time flies when you're having fun.

[charlie cleveland]

glad your order came in...hard to get supplies around here..i pick up enough to keep me going but lead is hard to come by... charlie

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

As far as RST is concerned I believe they are in the same quandary when it comes to getting material for loading, I called and ordered a flat of 20ga spreader and a flat of 28g a got an e-mail from Alex said the order could not be filled now, but hope he could fill it in 3-4 weeks Gary

[Rich Anderson]

I believe their shortage is the inability to get powder at this time. Much the same as the rest of us.

[Pete Lester]

As far as RST is concerned I believe they are in the same quandary when it comes to getting material for loading, I called and ordered a flat of 20ga spreader and a flat of 28g a got an e-mail from Alex said the order could not be filled now, but hope he could fill it in 3-4 weeks Gary

That makes me wonder what they will have on hand to sell at Hausman's Hidden Hollow in a few weeks, quite few folks simply buy the shells they use when they get there.

[Larry Frey]

Pete,
At the Southern a couple of weeks ago they just about completely emptied their truck by Saturday. I know they were completely out of several items and low on most others. I'm sure they will be restocked by the time Ernie’s shoot comes around.

[Bill Murphy]

I'm sure RST will be able to supply us with sufficient ammunition to satisfy us at Ernie's. Alex, Jill, and Morris have so many friends in the shooting community that their quest for components will be satisfied regardless of whether their normal channels dry up or not.

[Paul Harm]

I'd have to believe RST uses a powder also in big demand for pistol shells. Just about any true shotgun powders are avaible through Dawsons.

[Pete Lester]

I was talking with owner of a small gun shop last night who provides a great deal of the reloading supplies and shells used at the gun club I frequent the most. He said he did not know when his next load of lead shot would come in and mentioned the distributor he uses has 168,000+ bags of shot on back order.

[Stephen Hodges]

Was up to Cabelas in Me last week and plenty of shot, ditto at Riley's.

[Brian Dudley]

I placed an order with the local wholesale store a few weeks ago and they said it would be mid sept. for me to get it. They are also back ordered by many a thousand bags. I just ordered a bag from bownells to get me by until then. They only wanted a little bit more than I pay from the wholesaler and I was placing an order anyway for some other stuff.

One local gun shop had 3 bags of 9 shot on hand. But they wanted like $55 each for them. I'm not that hard up.

[Jeff Kuss]

I just paid $45 a bag for magnum shot at my local skeet range. He had plenty.

[Mark Landskov]

I have been a frequent customer of Graf & Son and Midway for many years. They send out e-mails when items arrive, but they are sold out by the time I read the note and go to their website, and I check my e-mail frequently! I have been finding primers and bullets at smaller, lesser-known outfits, for non-gouging prices.

[Pete Lester]

I went to the Kittery Trading Post again last night, almost all powders out of stock, 100% of shotgun powders out of stock. There were half dozen bags of shot, all #6, price has increased to $54.99 plus 5% Maine sales tax. This is the highest retail price on a bag of shot I have ever seen.

I still have not seen a box or a brick of 22 LR this year. We will in a few short weeks have lost the entire summer for great number of youth to learn or practice shooting with a 22 in formal and informal settings. IMO the continued lack of availability of 22 rimfire is a very big threat to the future of shooting sports as we go forward.

[Robin Lewis]

Pete, I agree on the .22's! I have been traveling and have looked along the way for .22's anywhere I had the chance to stop and look. I looked here in New Hampshire (and Maine), Pennsylvania, Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico and Louisiana as I traveled. I went into big box stores and little gun shops I saw along the way and I only saw one box of .22s.

I am shooting .22 tomorrow and will probably be out of ammunition when I return home.

[edgarspencer]

I bought a brick of Winchester 209s at KTP last tuesday, and paid $45. Saw it friday in NY for $36.50. Shot was $48, plenty of powder.

[John Campbell]

None of this shortage is good. But it seems to be very regional/area sensitive. Or maybe just luck. I have no problem finding powder (albeit not my preferred type) and most primers. both at slightly elevated prices of course. But a $54 bag of shot is better than NO bag of shot.

[Jeff Kuss]

I was at Gander Mountain this week and bought a brick of federal 22s for $2.59 a box. Their ammo shelves were full .

[Dean Romig]

Maybe some of the vendors aren't pushing the manufacturers and suppliers hard enough to get their shelves filled. You'd think a high-volume store like KTP would have enough buying power (leverage) to get more than they do.

[charlie cleveland]

the walmart store in my area gets a coupls shipments a week of 22 ammo but people stand in line to buy it and it s allways the same people standing in line..most of them are just hoarding it up they dont hunt or shoot and want sell it either...walmarts here at home has plenty of shotgun and high power rifle shells but no 22 or pistol ammo on the shelf..people buy it fast as they open the boxes..i can not hardley get any kind of lead or shotgun poowder in my area..but i see plenty of powder on line at high prices... charlie

[Bill Murphy]

The truck is backing up for our little group tomorrow morning. I'll let you guys know what was on it.

[Rich Anderson]

I was just at the largest gun store in my area. Plenty of powder and wads. I bought 2 boxes of 45ACP HP ammo but no 22 ammo.

[Mark Landskov]

Graf and Son recently had some 22 short cartridges. They were made for the Polish Olympic Team! They were priced right, and I needed some for my Winder musket. It has since sold out.

[E Robert Fabian]

I'm looking for a brick of Fiocchi primers if any one runs across them.
Thanks Bob

[scott kittredge]

I'm looking for a brick of Fiocchi primers if any one runs across them.
Thanks Bob

Bob, Bob S. has CCI that are same dia. as Fiocchi, I think 130.00 for 5000/ I just pick some up about 2 weeks ago

[edgarspencer]

I just saw Fiochis. Since KTP was the last place I've been, I think, it must have been them. Or maybe it was Ballistic Products. CRS sucks.

[charlie cleveland]

all the powder and lead shot seems to be in the hands of scaliwags... lots of powder for sale on the auction sites but at about double the price... charlie

[Larry Stauch]

I was at a local gun store today looking for some misc things and to my surprise they had Remington Peters 1-1/8 oz x 3 dram in both 7-1/2 and 8 for $6 a box. These are those beautiful medium blue compression formed hulls like the old AA's. With these prices for shot, primers and powder and the time it takes to load them, I'm not sure buying factory ammo isn't cheaper in the long run. He had 275 flats and those hulls are very reloadable. Although I don't shoot 30,000 rounds a year.

[Rich Anderson]

I have gone through 10 bags of shot this summer so far. Only another month on the sporting clays courses then its bird season:) Maybe once fall gets here things will loosen up some.

[wayne goerres]

't know if it is a sign of things to come but I was in wally world today and the ammo case was almost full. No 22s but almost everything else. I ordered a case of 16 ga from RST and they wernt backordered. They came right in had them in 3 days.

[Rick Losey]

called around and found one shop that said they had the powder I wanted, stopped in and they brought out a pound of powder, I said might as well get two, and was told that was the last one.

then I remembered that I was almost out of primers, he said they had two boxes, and they have been in back order for four months. I took both.

[Bill Murphy]

The delivery we just got had Top Guns $56.50 a flat, shot in mid thirties, W209 for $31.50, Thunderbolts for $21.00 a brick. I may be set for life at the rate I'm shooting.

[Daryl Corona]

Please, do tell, where did this "delivery" come from Bill?

[Pete Lester]

The delivery we just got had Top Guns $56.50 a flat, shot in mid thirties, W209 for $31.50, Thunderbolts for $21.00 a brick. I may be set for life at the rate I'm shooting.

Those are the best prices in the nation on shot (by far) and Win 209 primers. The Remington Thunderbolts are still selling on Gunbroker for $36 a brick plus shipping. You should buying and selling that stuff for profit!

Our local guy rec'd 33 bags of shot all #9's on an order of 240 bags. His distributor told him no more shot until November, his price to us is $42 a bag cash and that is way better than local retail of $49 to $55 a bag.

[charlie cleveland]

i have not seen any big pallets of shotgun shells for doves at the wally world as of yet. they had maybe 5 cases of differant shells such as steel and lead high brass and low brass...i n by gone years the aieles would be full of dove loads... i picked up a 100 round box of 12 ga for 26 dollars...hope every one else is fairing better...charlie

[Rick Losey]

i wish i had paid that for the bricks of W209s

[Dean Romig]

We're being duped. Remember what happened to gasoline prices in '73/'74 when an artificial shortage was in place? Remember the long lines at the pumps? Remember the oddd/even days when we were allowed to buy fuel????? It was all created to elevate the price of gasoline!! When we finally were able to buy gasoline after the "shortage" had ended we didn't complain much at all about the price... we were just so happy that gasoline was available once again..... What a bunch of saps we are!!

[Rick Losey]

that may be true Dean, but back in '74 no one stockpiled gasoline,

(okay there was that guy up in the hollow that filled auxiliary tanks on his Winnebago, but someone siphoned it out so the plan failed)

except for those few like serious clays shooters who use large amounts, many people are putting away enough to last a long, if not a life, time, sales may well crash at some point, and if its an ammo company ripoff, they may regret it when no one needs to buy any longer.

[Dean Romig]

Ifits an ammo company ripoff, they may regret it when no one needs to buy any longer.


We've already seen some small evidence of that but it will happen on a large scale and they will regret it.

[Pete Lester]

I do not believe for one second we are being duped. That would require both US and foriegn competitors of ammo, powder, and components such as lead shot to conspire with each other. I can't believe the desire of each to make a profit by filling the void created intentionally by another could happen much less persist. To believe this means a coordinated effort between; Dupont, Alliant, Hodgdon, Fiochhi, Cheddite, Winchester, Federal, Estate, Rio, Hornady, Lawrence, Eagle, etc, etc. It would also deliberately open up the door to new competition as new companies are formed to meet the demand.

Similiar to the 1930's we have had and have a PANIC, just like the run on the banks. A gun buying panic created by fear. Not just existing gun owners buying more but new gun owners, all those tens of millions of new guns need ammunition.

Go out and do some research on the federal DPAS system, I deal with it at work. A government agency can place an order with a vendor and make that order a DPAS code DX. That is top priority, becomes the first order a vendor must fill under law. The government has been exposed of buying billions of additional rounds of ammo for HHS, plus what they were buying for the military. The HHS purchases are far greater in quantity and short timing then even the military orders when the two wars were active. That ammo takes all the same raw materials every other cartridge and shell uses.

Then add to the mix hoarders, buying out of fear and stockpiling. Then add to that carpet baggers, buying what they can to turn around and sell it for a quick profit, often double or more than what they paid. These two conditions put additional demand on the supply chain.

There is no OPEC or oil cartel here created to bring the biggest producers and competitors together and monopolize a market. This is a true mess created by politics and fear of the same, made worse by the deliberate giant priority orders of the government designed to dry up supply, and further made worse by scared people who hoard and opportunists looking to profit.

Finally, shortages drive up prices but added to this are the monetary policies of the last few years that have devalued the dollar, (of course the gov't doesn't want to call this inflation) and we arrive at $55 a bag for lead, and $3.75 a gallon to go pick it up in a $35,000 truck.

[Bill Murphy]

Daryl, I sent you a PM.

[Daryl Corona]

Daryl, I sent you a PM.

Got it! Thanks for the info.

[John Farrell]

Many of the ammunition buyers in the recent past were like the locust plagues of the farm years of the 30s and 40s. I call them hoarders and lemmings. They're people that react to the scare comments from radio talk show fear mongers and are the major reason for the ammo shortages. Fear and ignorance have always driven panic buying. And it always will.

[John Campbell]

It's just me, but I'd rather be a "paranoid" with 100,000 rounds in my basement than a Pollyanna who gladly fills out a government form to buy a brick of .22s.

But, that's just me...

[Rick Losey]

Many of the ammunition buyers in the recent past were like the locust plagues of the farm years of the 30s and 40s. I call them hoarders and lemmings. They're people that react to the scare comments from radio talk show fear mongers and are the major reason for the ammo shortages. Fear and ignorance have always driven panic buying. And it always will.

Years ago, there was a perceived shortage of something (forget what) that caused panic buying, and as a joke Johnny Carson said on his show that it was just announced that they expected a shortage of toilet paper next.

The panic buying was so bad the next day that he had to explain it was a joke and apologize

[Dean Romig]

"Nothing to see here folks... move along."

Everything will be available soon.

*tongue firmly planted in cheek*

[Pete Lester]

"Nothing to see here folks... move along."

Everything will be available soon.

Soon? According to two senior managers at the Kittery Trading Post, a store I know you enjoying shopping at from time to time, inventory of ammo and components is not expected to return to normal until late fall of 2014. That is not soon enough for me.

[Dean Romig]

Pete, I modified my post.

[Rick Losey]

The shop I picked up the last of the W209s at said their replenishment shipment has been on back order for four months already.

[Dean Romig]

We're lobsters in a pot of tepid water.....

[paul stafford jr]

at our club we were unable to get any 20 ga. rem. gun clubs or primers in our last order. I have not seen a brick of 22s in a year. but we have a good supply of powder for shotguns and rifle . our club has about 900 members so a good supply of ammo and reloading supplies is needed. last month we even ran out of 20 ga wads. when you find what you use, buy it. my son and I shoot about 10,000 shot shells a year, that may sound like a lot but it is really not. its the price of lead shot that's killing me at 20 bags a year, 46.00 a bag my hobby keeps me working full time. I just like shooting too much to quit. they want us to be happy that we can still buy the stuff no matter what they charge us. I can't wait for the next election

[Robin Lewis]

This morning I lucked out and was able to buy two boxes of ammo. I placed the boxes on the front seat and headed back home, but stopped at a gas station where a drop dead gorgeous blond, in a short skirt, was filling up her car at the next pump.

She glanced at the two boxes of ammo, and bent over and leaned into my passenger side window and said in a very sexy voice, "I'm a big believer in barter. Would you be interested in trading sex for ammo?":eek:

:rolleyes:I thought for a second and replied, "Maybe, what kind of ammo do you have?"

[Dean Romig]

I can't wait for the next election

We may not last that long :violin:

[Daryl Corona]

This morning I lucked out and was able to buy two boxes of ammo. I placed the boxes on the front seat and headed back home, but stopped at a gas station where a drop dead gorgeous blond, in a short skirt, was filling up her car at the next pump.

She glanced at the two boxes of ammo, and bent over and leaned into my passenger side window and said in a very sexy voice, "I'm a big believer in barter. Would you be interested in trading sex for ammo?":eek:

:rolleyes:I thought for a second and replied, "Maybe, what kind of ammo do you have?"

Robin, you have a very vivid imagination.:nono: Well..... what kind of ammo did you receive for "services rendered"? Hope they were low pressure.:)

[Paul Harm]

"the services rendered" were low pressure.

[Daryl Corona]

Ooooooohhhh, good one Paul!:)

[Bill Murphy]

My "$31.50 for W209s was in error." On rechecking, the W209 primers were $31.00, the Top Guns and Gun Clubs were $56.50 a flat, the shot was $35.00, and the Thunderbolt .22s were $21.00 a brick of 500. Apparently, all were in good supply, no rationing this delivery.

[Rich Anderson]

If you can get shot for $31/bag I'll take 15 bags send you a check and pick up at the Southern:whistle:

[Bill Murphy]

Shot was $35 a bag. Any honest wholesaler should sell it to you for that price. You are dealing with crooks if you pay higher than my prices. My guy is making a fortune in the component business.

[Rich Anderson]

At $35/bag I'll make the same offer.

[Pete Lester]

Shot was $35 a bag. Any honest wholesaler should sell it to you for that price. You are dealing with crooks if you pay higher than my prices. My guy is making a fortune in the component business.

You are extremely fortunate on both your prices and availability of components and ammo, especially 22 rimfire. I don't even have a chance to deal with the crooks as you call them, from Cabelas Scarborough ME, Riley's Guns in Hooksett NH, Kittery Trading Post ME, and a local landscaper who runs a hobby business where I live don't have those items to sell me at any price, especially powder.

I spoke with some shooters who went to the Grand American, they said they were disappointed with the availability of components by vendors in attendance.

[Paul Harm]

We payed 38.50 last time from Dawsons - thought that was a good price. I see shot at the local places is coming down. Let's hope it continues.

[charlie cleveland]

i m in the same boat pete s in nobody around me has anything for reloading..i can get everything on line but it s sky high...punch in powder on gunbroker to see what i mean... charlie

[Rich Anderson]

I just called one of the biggest suppliers in Michigan of reloading componets and they have no shot at all. It was supposed to be in yesterday but nothing yet. When asked the price I was rudly told it couldn't be determined untill after delivery. I doubt I'd buy from them now.

[Rick Losey]

hmm - at the current prices, and the fact nothing hangs around tying up inventory dollars.

one would wonder why they would not be happy.

might be they get tried of the calls, but heck, that's their business :draw:


I have not looked for shot in the stores yet (I have looked in the garage :whistle: but still can't find those copper 6's)

[Dean Romig]

Sunday is the last day for members of my skeet and trap club to place orders for components. We have not had any problem receiving everything ordered. We'll see what happens this time and what the prices are.

[Paul Harm]

Just put in a order to Dawsons [ in Ohio ] - couldn't get 700X or Universal Clays but they had everything other than that. Shot was 40.50/bag [ over 80 bags for that price ] - they even had small rifle and pistol primers. Promo, what I use, was $80/8lbs - Cheddites were 108/5000 - most wads in the $80/5000 range. Our club is still doing ok. For shotgun reloading there has been no shortage or rip off in prices.

[Pete Lester]

Just put in a order to Dawsons [ in Ohio ] - couldn't get 700X or Universal Clays but they had everything other than that. Shot was 40.50/bag [ over 80 bags for that price ] - they even had small rifle and pistol primers. Promo, what I use, was $80/8lbs - Cheddites were 108/5000 - most wads in the $80/5000 range. Our club is still doing ok. For shotgun reloading there has been no shortage or rip off in prices.

Odd, the local hobby business that supports my gun club orders from Dawson's. He had 240 bags of shot on backorder for several months and received only 33 bags and only 9's. They told him no more shot until November at the earliest.

[Paul Harm]

Don't know what to tell you - all I know is we've always got what we've wanted from Dawsons. There's a new guy making shot - he shows up at the Michigan Trap Shooting grounds - sells shot for about the same price only it comes in a bucket. I don't know a whole lot about him seeing how I don't attend the shoots, only what a friend tells me. My understanding is that he bought a old shot tower and got it going again.

[Rich Anderson]

I just called the rude Michigan supplier and the new batch of shot that just came in is $41.50/bag. At a small gun shop yesterday and it was $49.99. I can waite as my clay target season is coming to a close once bird season opens.

[edgarspencer]

I paid $49.00 at a local shop, but I like the guy. He showed me his invoice and he's paying more wholesale than a lot of you are paying, retail. It's all based on volume, I spose. KTP charges $49, and I'm sure they move a lot more than my guy.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Stopped in Johnson's just north of Adrian, MI today and they had quite a bit of shot on hand. I think the guy said it was $42 and change a bag.

DLH

[Pete Lester]

I paid $49.00 at a local shop, but I like the guy. He showed me his invoice and he's paying more wholesale than a lot of you are paying, retail. It's all based on volume, I spose. KTP charges $49, and I'm sure they move a lot more than my guy.

Correction, KTP used to charge $49.99. It is now $54.99.

[charlie cleveland]

pete you could not get a bag of shot around here for a 100 dollars..theres none to be had around my parts..i can get a little rifle and pistol reloading stuff but nothing for shotguns.. if i need something it has to come on line...and i ve not found much thats reasonable anymore..you boys are lucky that live in the ares were there seems to be no problem getting shot and powder... charlie

[Rick Losey]

The September issue of the NRA's American Hunter has an article entitled

"Where's the Ammo"

they discount the DHS issue and lay the shortages and prices on increased demands due in part to increased gun sales, and an increase in outlets (ranges and stores) and largely on speculators and hoarders.

the high sales caused increases in commodity prices which has increased production costs. the article ends with comments that there are signs of increased supplies beginning to trickle into some areas of the market.

[Pete Lester]

The September issue of the NRA's American Hunter has an article entitled

"Where's the Ammo"

they discount the DHS issue and lay the shortages and prices on increased demands due in part to increased gun sales, and an increase in outlets (ranges and stores) and largely on speculators and hoarders.

the high sales caused increases in commodity prices which has increased production costs. the article ends with comments that there are signs of increased supplies beginning to trickle into some areas of the market.

I read that article and beg to differ with the authors conclusion. The people who hoard tend to be shooters. The speculators have to move their product before the music stops and they sell to someone who should want to use the ammo.

The rifle range at my club has fallen near silent. Nobody is shooting much.

Every retail outlet I know imposes a limit on the purchase of ammo and powder which keeps people from hoarding.

The retailers can't get the products from the distributors, the hoarders and speculators are not buying from the distributors.

Something else is going on in this country.

[Bruce Parham]

Hi All,

I'm new around here but I've been having good luck, over the last few months, finding supplies at Recob's (http://www.recobstargetshop.com/). They seem to get stuff in fairly frequently. Of course it doesn't last long but, if you can get it into your shopping cart and don't mind paying shipping and haz-mat fees, you'll get it in a couple weeks.

I have no connection with them - just a satisfied customer.

Bruce
1928 SC SBT

[mike covington]

Charlie, do you get down to Jackson? If so I've got some PB and Green Dot you can have. Might also scare up some shot and primers. Let me know.

Mike

[charlie cleveland]

check your pm s mike..and thanks.... charlie

[mike covington]

Charlie, PM back to you.

Mike

[Pete Lester]

I stopped at the Kittery Trading Post today and the situation with reloading supplies remains mixed, lot to no availability and when something is available like lead shot, high prices $54.99 plus tax. There were no reloading powders available except STEEL, a situation which has persisted for at least a year now. Pistol and Rifle ammo is available, notable .223 which was not to be had a year ago. What struck me the most was this is the first time anywhere I have found 22 rimfire ammo available in over a year. 500 round boxes of Aquila brand, subsonic, standard and high velocity 22 LR. No limit per customer the sign said, price per brick, $67.99 plus tax. :eek:

[Dave Suponski]

Pete, The componant situation here in CT isn't much better. I can get lead and primers but no powder. Wads I always mail order and luckily that has been okay. A couple weeks ago a buddy of mine and myself found a small gunshop over in NY that had a good supply of powder so we went and bought 20 lbs. of various brands.

[Paul Harm]

This must be a local thing. We can still get just about everything except a couple of powders and loaded shot gun ammo.

[Rick Losey]

I went to a local ammo/reloading supply shop yesterday and they were out of almost everything again- got the last 1lb bottles of 7625 and 4756 since he will likely not be getting anymore.

they had a good supply a while back - but only in bigger bottles, this time he said he could get me anything nobody wanted

[Rich Anderson]

I just got 5000 16ga wads from Ballistic Products. I have primers and shot and haven't had to look for powder....yet but the search begins again.

I have purchased two bricks of 555 .22LRHP ammo one Remington the other Federal of less than $30 in recent months.

[paul stafford jr]

hear in lower Michigan shortages continue, powder and some wads ,20ga gun clubs have not been in stock since last summer. last winter I purchased every thing I needed for my shooting season which starts next month, this is the plan again.

[Pete Lester]

It's still a bit crazy around these parts. Yesterday the Kittery Trading Post put out 60 "Bucket of Bullets", 1400 rounds of 22LR for $75. Not a terrible price in the current market. They were gone in about an hour.

[Rich Anderson]

Twice in recent months I have purchased the 555 pack of 22LR for about $30 and these were HP so thats not a bad price at all.

Saturday I managed to get three pounds of PB (just in case I run out of 4756) and a can of 4756 along with 4000 Win 209 primers.

[Mills Morrison]

I am just hoping RST gets their Nice Shot back in stock before next duck season

[Paul Harm]

Here in Michigan we're putting together a order at the club from Dawsons in Ohio [ a wholesaler] and they have about everything in stock except Federal and Remington primers. As I've said before, these shortages must be a local thing. What's nice is that they add the order to a truck load of clay birds so we don't pay shipping or sales tax. We just have to wait sometimes a couple of weeks for them to come up this way to another club. I usually get about 4 to 500$ in my order so I'm saving 24 to 30$ in sales tax alone, plus we get the wholesale price. I did notice PB went from 140 to 152/ 8#'s. The Promo I use is still 85$/8#'s. I've read PB, 7625, 4756 and a couple of other IMR powders will be discontinued because of "lack of sales ".

[Pete Lester]

I am not convinced the powder shortage is local to me nor easing up. If you shop the big reloading retailers as of today; Recobs, Powder Valley, Natchez Shooters Supply, MidwayUSA, Ballistic Products, Precision Reloading, Gameliel etc. You will find that popular Alliant shotgun powders, Red Dot, Promo, Green Dot are not available in any quantity. Most of these places had Promo at all times until just before Christmas.

[charlie cleveland]

i m with pete on this one..22 s are still hard to get at fair prices... i look for powder on line and it says out of stock...10 ga hulls are very hard to come by at the moment...there is not a good supply of powder or reloading componets with in 50 miles of me..any body got a suggestion on 10 ga hulls...midway says out of stock...as of last night....charlie

[wayne goerres]

Charlie I have been buying mine through precision reloading with out any problems.

[Rick Losey]

same here Charlie- just got an order of 10 gauge Remingtons last week from Precision

[Paul Harm]

Sorry Pete, Dawsons has every powder except 4756 and 7625 in the 4# container but does have even that in the 1 and 8# containers. There are shotgun primers in Cheddite, Rio, Noble Sport, and Winchester. All the wads and lead you want. So I don't really see that much of a shortage, at least here in the mid -west.

[John Campbell]

Mr. Harm:
With all due respect, if you are referring to the Dawson's Enterprises in Massillon OH, you are regrettably incorrect. I just phone them today, and they have absolutely NO shotgun target powders available, save a small reserve of Promo.

What's more, they do not expect any powders to be shipped anytime soon. Especially the various "Clays" powders.

Sorry to bear such news...

[Pete Lester]

Mr. Harm:
With all due respect, if you are referring to the Dawson's Enterprises in Massillon OH, you are regrettably incorrect. I just phone them today, and they have absolutely NO shotgun target powders available, save a small reserve of Promo.

What's more, they do not expect any powders to be shipped anytime soon. Especially the various "Clays" powders.

Sorry to bear such news...

Not good news John but it helps to confirm my observations of surfing the web that the shortage of shotgun reloading powder has gone from spotty to non existent at this time. Let's hope it eases up soon.

[Mark Ouellette]

Mr. Harm:
With all due respect, if you are referring to the Dawson's Enterprises in Massillon OH, you are regrettably incorrect. I just phone them today, and they have absolutely NO shotgun target powders available, save a small reserve of Promo.

What's more, they do not expect any powders to be shipped anytime soon. Especially the various "Clays" powders.

Sorry to bear such news...

On reading this I called Dawson's and placed an ample quantity of IMR 7625 and PB on hold for Paul Harm's order.

I also asked about the future availability of IMR single based powders. The salesperson laughed when I told of the Internet scare :crying:
I was informed that these powders will continue to be manufactured but will be sold under the Hodgen packaging rather than IMR.

I was also informed that Winchester AA Lite, 780, and two other powders will be discontinued.

If anyone knows anyone at Hodgen corporate headquarters who they may ask to can confirm the above listed logical explanition please do so and post up.

All is well in shotgun land...

Mark

[Paul Stafford]

Ok so why is there two different stories here? From the same vendor?

Ironically my club does order from this company and powder seems scarce....

[Mark Ouellette]

The recent scare concerned IMR single base powders, which Dawson's have in stock.

[Paul Stafford]

The IMR powders seem to be available, but Alliant is not an easy find....

[George Lang]

Does Dawsons do mail orders???

[John Campbell]

Ok so why is there two different stories here? From the same vendor?

Ironically my club does order from this company and powder seems scarce....

The information I posted came directly from the owner's mouth at 10:45 am today. I saw him personally at 11:30 when I bought 16 lbs. of Promo.

If anyone doubts the situation, you are welcome to phone Dawson's yourself at 330-833-0014

[Pete Lester]

All is well in shotgun land...

Mark

Mark if all was truly well in shotgun reloading land any of us should be able to go our local gun shop or any of the various on-line retailers and buy one or more of popular shotgun target powders; Red Dot, 700-X, Clays, Promo etc. I don't see that is the case. If you found some powder somewhere that's great but right now that seems to be quite an exception to the current situation. I am simply reporting my observations of surfing various retailer websites and reporting the powder situation has worsened.

[Richard Flanders]

There's not an ounce of powder in either of the Alaska Sportsmans Warehouses I was in this past week. Nada. There wasn't a single primer other than a stack of Rio 209's when I walked into the Anchorage store but as I walked around a guy came out with a cart full of cases to stock the shelves and I grabbed a 1000 federal 210's for my .30-06. Shot is $53/25# bag.

[Paul Stafford]

The information I posted came directly from the owner's mouth at 10:45 am today. I saw him personally at 11:30 when I bought 16 lbs. of Promo.

If anyone doubts the situation, you are welcome to phone Dawson's yourself at 330-833-0014

I understand Kensal, I belong to one of the larger clubs in Michigan and we have a hard time getting product from the same supplier. Thanks for the clarification.

[Eric Grims]

Is there an equivalent substitute for Sr7625?
Also: anyone have a 2 1/2" 16 gauge low pressure load for longshot? I have a lot of long shot.
Thanks

[Pete Lester]

Another observation, many sources have told us the shortages are the result of hoarders and opportunists look to make a buck by gouging. Last year Gunbroker had lots of auctions along these lines, I remember seeing 16lbs of 700-x for $450 plus shipping. Looking today there is hardly an auction for any of the popular target powders, leads me to believe the opportunists are having trouble finding product to sell.

[John Dallas]

Who makes the powders which go in commercial (ie Remington, Federal, Winchester) shells? Given that the ammo makers are all going all out to produce what they can (don't forget about Homeland Security's purchase of millions (billions?) of rounds). Is it possible that there is not enough powder-making capacity at this time?

[Rich Anderson]

I believe they get it from the same places we do. Perhaps a different mixture but I'll be it's supplied by Hodgen, Alliant ect. I know from talking to RST I'm using the same powder in my 16's that they do. Some of the more popular rifle powders 4350 and H380 were bulk military surplus powder.

[John Campbell]

Another observation, many sources have told us the shortages are the result of hoarders and opportunists...

I must plead guilty on both counts. Whenever I have the "opportunity" to buy some usable powder at a fair price, I buy it!

My resulting sin is that I then "hoard it" with the intention of using it myself!

[William Davis]

I had to go on a hunt for suitable 20 G powders. I recommend anyone looking for substitutes go to one of the "relative quickness" charts list the powders that are about the same burn speed as the one you want then cross check with several loading manuals to confirm they are good alternates.

With half a dozen powders to chose from found a good supply of something I would not have thought about that is working very well

Bill

[Rich Anderson]

Bill would you share that powder substitute? I have used Unique, Longshot and 20/28 for my 20ga loading.

[paul stafford jr]

hi rich , I use 800x in 12-20 and 28 ga.

[Rich Anderson]

Paul I used that in the 12ga when I was shooting registered skeet. Never tried it in anything else. Are you loading low pressure shells in the 20?

[paul stafford jr]

I load them to shoot registered , but I have loaded down for low pressure loads , its about as dirty as unique in light loads for Damascus guns

[John Dallas]

Be careful of using low pressure 800X loads in cold weather. Many years ago, I loaded about 20 boxes of a 12 gauge 1 1/8 oz load from the DuPont loaders manual. Tried to use them in cold weather. Blooper, poppers etc. Had to throw them all away. Questioned DuPont - they said - "whoops we should never have put that load in the manual. Sorry". That being said., I think 800X in a 12 qa 1 1/4 #6 pheasant load is better than anything the factory has put out. I used in field trials for years, where the name of the game is to shoot the bird as far away from the dog as possible in order to see if the dog can mark and retrieve

[William Davis]

Here is the chart I made up numbers are quickness. Relative quickness is subjective not the final word but a good indicator of what may work that's similar to your preferred powder. All were cross checked with Hodgdon's on line loading manual to confirm they were acceptable low pressure 3/4 oz 20 loads. Longshot was not recommended for 3/4 oz loads for some reason. Wanted Unique could not find any, kept the chart in my shirt pocket scouring Internet sites and stores. Ended up with Hodgdon International which is working fine.

Unique Alliant 31
20/28 Alliant 30
PB Hodgdon 23
Int Hodgdon 21
Super Hcp Winchester 20
Green Dot Alliant 17
Am Select Alliant 15

Bill

[scott kittredge]

I use 13 grs of 700-x for 3/4 oz. 20 ga loads. I use 700-x from 3/4 oz. 20 ga to 1 1/4 oz 10 ga. works great in all temps. and 1 powder to buy, clean burning, low pressure win win for me, scott

[Daryl Corona]

I've been using 20/28 in my 3/4oz. 16 and 20ga. loads and I just love it.

[Richard Flanders]

Wandered the Denver gunshow today. One table had 12# metal kegs of PB for $179! I've never seen kegs like that. Didn't do me any good as I can't get it home to Alaska.

[Paul Harm]

That's cheap - *8's from Dawsons is going for 154.

[Rich Anderson]

There is no brass available either:eek: I've been scouring the web looking for 7mm-08 brass and nothing!

[John Campbell]

One partial explanation is more govt buying. Check Alex Jones site today. You will see the USPS just put out a bid for a couple million rounds of ammo. That takes brass, powder, etc. Wonder what your mailman needs it all for?

[Pete Lester]

There is no brass available either:eek: I've been scouring the web looking for 7mm-08 brass and nothing!

Seems like that brass is available but I don't know if the prices are good.

http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0011510187

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0001320270225

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=NO10187&src=ppj&utm_source=pj&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=43737

http://www.brownells.com/reloading/brass/rifle-brass/norma-25-count-boxes-prod54806.aspx?psize=96&avad=avant&aid=109483&cm_mmc=affiliate-_-Itwine-_-Avantlink-_-Custom+Link

Scour harder :)

[Rich Anderson]

Pete thanks for the links. natchezz and Midway had none, my local sporting goods store had none BUT Midsouth had Norma brass and your right at $1.00+ per case it's not cheap but I have 50 cases coming:). The shipping is a rip off almost $14 but they got you.

It's for a brand new custom rifle so I wanted new brass and Norma is some of the best.....I hope:)

[paul stafford jr]

hi rich , 1.00 a shell case is cheap ,I pay as much as 10.00 a piece for my sharps rifles. but if you need some loaded ammo I have a little to spare in 7mm / 08

[Paul Stafford]

As far as buying powder, Brownells is out of most but they are getting it in. I ordered and an 8lb of Alliant 20/28 for Skeet shooting and it was only backordered just over 10 days. No one has it in stock but if your patient it appears it will come in. Price wasn't as good as our club but at least I can get it.

Just my two cents...

[Rich Anderson]

Paul Jays Sporting Goods in Clare had several 8lbers of 20/28. I'll be back up that way next week if they still have it I can get it for you and save you the shipping.

I bought (hopefully) 50 rds of Norma brass and with shipping it was just shy of $70:shock:

[Paul Stafford]

Rich,
If your up there, please grab it and I'll get it from you. I can never have enough powder to shoot skeet. Thanks!

Paul

[Rich Anderson]

No problem. When I get it I'll let you know.

[Bruce Parham]

Just ordered 8 lbs of 700X from Recob's. Don't know how long it'll last...

Bruce

[Pete Lester]

Just ordered 8 lbs of 700X from Recob's. Don't know how long it'll last...

Bruce

Not long, just got in from a UNH hockey game and they are sold out. Anyone see a pattern here?

[John Farrell]

19 pages of "the sky is falling" and there is suddenly a shortage of everything. Anyone besides me notice this is a redux of January 2013 to January 2014?

[Pete Lester]

19 pages of "the sky is falling" and there is suddenly a shortage of everything. Anyone besides me notice this is a redux of January 2013 to January 2014?

John are you saying the shortages of reloading components and ammo, espcially 22 rimfire is seasonal or not a problem you have seen or one we should be concerned about?

[charlie cleveland]

its the same here in mississippi..if you aint in line when the truck runs you ain t going to get any powder or shot... charlie

[Rick Losey]

19 pages of "the skyn is falling" and there is suddenly a shortage of everything. Anyone besides me notice this is a redux of January 2013 to January 2014?

no- not really

this thread started in March not January- less than a year ago, and has been pretty consistent, reloading supplies have been in short supply for most items in most areas.

certain items have eased up a bit and the situation seems to be improving although very slowly.

I expect as the hoarders have reach maximum capacity it will continue to slowly improve. But we are at the time of the year when many people load for the upcoming clays and summer shooting season. So what does show up on a shelf will be purchased quickly until everyone's stock is resupplied.

the sky isn't falling - but it isn't all sunshine yet either

:coffee:

[Rich Anderson]

I think the mentality is more of get what you can while you can befor the price goes up further. A month ago or so while visiting my parents I stopped in a store and bought three lbs of PB and one of 7625 and one of Clay Dot. They had primers for $36/1000 so I bought 4K. Yesterday I went to my local store which is usually well supplied with reloading supplies (they have two locations) and picked up 8lbs of 20/28. I looked at their primer cost $59/1000:eek: I also added a lb of H414 but they had no H380 or IMR 4350:shock:

[Pete Lester]

Rich, that is an awful high price on primers. Cheaper to have them shipped even with hazmat fees. Powder Valley has Cheddite 209's for $24 per 1000. Mid South Shooters Supply has them for $25.20 and Federal 209's for $27.25. Winchester 209's are more, $39.99 per $1K at Natchez.

[Rich Anderson]

Pete that what I thought as well. Their powder prices arn't bad but the primers holy crap.

Fed Ex just dropped of the 7-08 cases, not cheap but I have 50 for this new rifle and that should last me for a long time. My thanks again to you for the link. :bowdown:

[Mike.Smith]

I don't have anyone local to me that really sells anything above the 14oz containers of powder. My best luck has been the Gun Shows. I've been to two of them lately, one in January and one the first week in February. I was able to find an 8lb Container and 11 of the 14oz containers of PB which I bought. The prices were a lot higher than I"m used too, but it was just a little more expensive than getting it shipped from somewhere. The dealer had a second 8lb Container of PB, but would only sell me one. :cuss: I had to talk him into letting me have all three of his singles. I came home from the other show last weekend with another 8lb Container of PB and a 12lb Keg of SR-7625! I felt like I hit the mother load with that 12 pounder, especially at the price I paid. I also recently hit up Recob's when they claimed to have 8lb containers of PB in stock on the web, and I waited weeks to then find a message on my answering machine at home saying they were really out of stock and couldn't fill my online order.:banghead:

Mike

[Rich Anderson]

Mike my local store had 3 1lb cans of PB I think it was about $24/lb. If you would like them I'll pick them up next time i'm up that way. 12lb of 7625 is like hitting the lottery.:bowdown:

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Right place, right time. Walked into Cabelas this morning as a friend who works there brought out 2 cases of .22's. Only 1 brick/customer @ $25/brick. More than I'm used to paying, but damn happy to get them--they wanted double that at a gun show in Pittsburg last week.
Rich, I have 2 1 pounders of 7625 and will pick up more whenever I find it.

[Eric Grims]

I just came from the Barre gun show. I saw exactly one jar of pyrodex - the only powder at the whole show that I came upon, and I was looking.
Did hook up with three pound of sr7625 earlier in the week so with that and some other good powders I had I finally ordered that 2 1/2" 16 gauge Grabber from MEC.

[Rich Anderson]

Thanks Harold I appreciate your efforts.

Eric you will love the Mec. I have three 9000's set for 2 1/2 inch shells and will order one for the 12ga shortly.

[John Farrell]

Here's the message concerning "shortages". None of us would go online and post where we recently came across 20 coveys of grouse in one morning, or where we travel to for a fine day of dog work on pheasants. And, I've never been able to understand why everyone has to write essays on where the best turkey hunting is.

We know if we do those things every yahoo in the county that reads the good news is going to head to our favorite spots. Especially if the previous season was like finding a desert instead of a fount of game birds.

When one starts to broadcast that he has been finding a shortage of a commodity in his favorite market place, every yahoo that reads that sad news is going to run out and start buying that commodity in four or five times the amount he/she normally would. And then that person, finding no more of the commodity, posts that bad news and the avalanche of hoarding starts. Every time a post is added, more people move into the market and start hoarding all over again.

In other words, one comment begets more comments until the hoarding that we saw in 2013, or even as far back as 2008, begins a new cycle.

But, I suppose that's the American way, I got mine.

[Pete Lester]

John, I look at this way, the number of people on the PGCA forum in general, much less reload, is too small a number to affect the inventory of these components. The shortage of reloading components is not new news. The retailers I have referenced are the major on-line sources of such supplies, not obscure places to find such things. You are making an assumption that hoarding is the primary cause of the shortages, personnally I believe there is more to it. I thought it might help a few people on here who might be looking for powder because they have had trouble finding it. I will refrain from posting anything further about the availablity of powder unless someone asks if I have seen any.

[charlie cleveland]

myself i appreciate being told where some powder or ammo is..thanks pete... charlie

[Rich Anderson]

Pete you do a fine job of keeping us appraised of whats going on out there and please don't stop doing it.

I have boght powder locally for some members who can't find it in their area. Thats what we do here we help each other out and I don't believe that constitutes hoarding in any way.

Information is power, it's what you do with the power that's important.

[Rick Losey]

interesting opinion John;

personally - i think thats an apple and oranges comparison

the birds are not a manufactured commodity, i respect the natural resource, powder is commercially produced to be burned in guns.

i have managed to scrounge up some of the discontinued 7625 locally lately - once I have what I think I need and will actually use in a reasonable time period , if I find more, I will offer here to pick it up for others. Because its no longer made.

For common still made powders, I get what I need for a while and will take my chances when I need more.

everyone to their own- I consider hoarding to be an act of accumulating more than you ever need or things that you don't need at all. (we can ask Dean's wife for her definition :corn: :rotf: )

[Richard Flanders]

At the Denver gun show recently there were some .22's but prices were high, up to $10/box of 50 and most of it was old stuff coming out of garages and basements. There was powder. I sure wanted to pick up the three 12# kegs of PB I saw but there was no way for me to get them home. We went into Cabelas one day and they had no .22's at all and no powder. All I picked up down there was 9mm and 5.56mm bullets for reloading.

[Dave Purnell]

John, I look at this way, the number of people on the PGCA forum in general, much less reload, is too small a number to affect the inventory of these components. The shortage of reloading components is not new news. The retailers I have referenced are the major on-line sources of such supplies, not obscure places to find such things. You are making an assumption that hoarding is the primary cause of the shortages, personnally I believe there is more to it. I thought it might help a few people on here who might be looking for powder because they have had trouble finding it. I will refrain from posting anything further about the availablity of powder unless someone asks if I have seen any.

Besides the Parker Forum, I frequent the C&R Forum on Maryland Shooters. They have a thread titled "In Stock Now" where everyone writes in to report any good offers by suppliers, that they have run accross. A simple heads up benefits us all. We're all in this sport together, and knowledge is not our enemy.

[Pete Lester]

John I thought a little bit more about the analogy you have drawn above in regards to my posting the availability of reloading powders in this current and prolonged environment of scarcity. Really, what is the difference? Not sharing your examples is a form of hoarding, it is the very "I got mine" mentality you closed your post with. In your examples the motivation is a selfish desire to preserve something for ourselves. Certainly understandable. I have enough powder for myself that I will use, and I have the technology to find it, albeit with a little patience should I want more. Since I believe it helps other members of the PGCA I will post powders I think people are looking for when I can, if I see it available. Oh and like the grouse cover above, what I won't share is the technology and method that allows me see where these items become in-stock on a dealers website as it happens, but what I will share is the bounty it provides.

Thanks Dave for your post and the idea of what the Maryland shooters website is doing. I have started a similiar thread here.

[paul stafford jr]

so just when we thought we wouldn't get any powder till spring some came in Saturday at our club ,20/28 , pb , 700x ,h110, 296, it was like Christmas , lots of 1lb bottles of pistol and rifle powder, and for the first time in a year small rifle and pistol primers

[Pete Lester]

A sign of the crazy times. Winning bidder paid over $50 a pound for 8 lbs of Hodgdon TiteGroup.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=392561195

[wayne goerres]

I guess I should run down to the local sporting goods store and buy what is on hand.

[Pete Lester]

According to this shooting sports writer there is no relief for the shortages in the near future.

http://bearingarms.com/think-the-ammo-market-is-about-to-get-better-think-again/

[John Campbell]

A demand of 17 billion rounds per year?

"That’s about 5 billion rounds a year more than we were producing during the height of the Second World War," according to the author of this piece.

No one can tell me a civilian market consumes that much ammo per annum. This writer has been hosed.

[Pete Lester]

The number does sound out there but is it?

If fifty million people (14% of the population) buy or fire 1000 rounds a year (remember that includes 22 rimfire) that would be 50 billion rounds of ammo per year. The number may not be as outrageous as it sounds.

[Rick Losey]

But the average shooter/hunter isn't seriously shooting clays or practical pistol or 3 gun.

They may shoot a box of rifle ammo every couple years, a couple to check the sights each year and a few at deer.

A grouse hunter may do a round or two of clays and a box or two at birds

Duck hunters maybe a couple more boxes of shot shells

I would be surprised if the average hunter shoots a hundred rounds a year

[Mills Morrison]

Rick is right. A box of 5 shells lasts entirely too long for some of us turkey hunters.

[Pete Lester]

What is really perplexing to me about this situation is that it has persisted for over a year, yet heroin, meth and pot have fewer problems in their supply chain than smokeless powder or 22LR. Explain that. :corn:

[Rich Anderson]

I'll make up for some of the low volume shooters as I easily go through about 5000 rounds per year. I'm still not very good but it's all in the practice:rotf:

[scott kittredge]

I'll make up for some of the low volume shooters as I easily go through about 5000 rounds per year. I'm still not very good but it's all in the practice:rotf:

I think at your age, practice is over, you will never be very good :shock: :rotf: scott

[Rich Anderson]

I think at your age, practice is over, you will never be very good :shock: :rotf: scott

Oh the pain of the truth, but practice will continue s long as I'm able:dh::)

[Pete Lester]

Oh the pain of the truth, but practice will continue s long as I'm able:dh::)

Ya but it is kind of sad to hear of so much scarce reloading supplies being wasted like that :rotf:

[Rich Anderson]

Ya but it is kind of sad to hear of so much scarce reloading supplies being wasted like that :rotf:

I just scored on 16lbs of 7625 and 10 bags of shot so the practice will continue:whistle:

[Dean Romig]

Once the price escalates to $250/oz. I think we'll see things loosen up a bit.

On the other hand, once ammo is illegal the black market will make sure there is plenty available.... at a price.

[Pete Lester]

It became clear to me last night that consumer demand for loaded ammunition and reloading components is THE reason for all the shortages we have seen for 22's, primers, powder etc. Last night I went down to the Kittery Trading Post and in discussion with one of the people I know there he told me the store sold as much ammunition and reloading supplies in the last 10 months as they did in the last 10 years.

A greater than ten fold increase in demand, no wonder manufacturers have not been able to keep up.

Obviously this has been fear generated demand with scarcity demand (hoarding and resale gouging demand) piling on top of it. I suspect the situation will not change much until the fear subsides. I think our first chance for that happens in November '16 so I don't look for things to return to normal anytime soon. Let's hope I am wrong.

[Dave Purnell]

Pete, The neysayers will claim politics has nothing to do with it, it's the evil hoarders and gougers, put the tin foil away, blah, blah, blah. The fact is you are dead-on right.

[Richard B. Hoover]

I just paid $48 for a bag of shot. Price for 4 lbs of Blue Dot was over $100.

[Pete Lester]

I just paid $48 for a bag of shot. Price for 4 lbs of Blue Dot was over $100.

If it makes you feel better someone is willing to pay over $60 a pound plus shipping and hazmat for 11 pounds 14 ounces of Hodgdon Clays.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=399668290

[Richard B. Hoover]

If it makes you feel better someone paid over $60 a pound plus shipping and hazmat for 11 pounds 14 ounces of Hodgdon Clays.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=399668290

WOW! That Auction is at$725 and it still has over 3 days to run! This is nuts.

[Pete Lester]

WOW! That Auction is at$725 and it still has over 3 days to run! This is nuts.

It sure is nuts and not as isolated on GB as you would think.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=400725502

[Frank Cronin]

I don't get it...... The current bidding is higher than the "buy now"??? If you really wanted the powder, wouldn't you just buy it for the listed 400 than bid/purchase higher than that??

[Dean Romig]

Correct me if I'm wrong... I think the BIN option ends as soon as bidding begins.

[John Campbell]

I almost hate to mention this here, but I just bought 8 lbs of Promo for about $93... off the shelf.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Local gun shop has a crate 12,500 rounds of .223 . I believe the asking price was around $6,500. You could outfit your own militia.

[John Campbell]

Either that, or provide Homeland Security with a fun afternoon at the range...

[wayne goerres]

Home land security only buys shells. They don't actually know what to do with them so they store them. They are probably monitoring this site.

[jeffkinser]

Home land security only buys shells. They don't actually know what to do with them so they store them. They are probably monitoring this site.

And if they're not, the NSA will tell them!

[Daryl Corona]

Let me put on my tin foil hat.:shock:

[wayne goerres]

If you have any extra tin I could use some. I need to cast some 650 gr bullets for one of my sharps.

[Rick Losey]

By the way - at the local show this past weekend - ammo seemed to be in good supply- prices varied from table to table - but I got what I was looking for at a price I had not seen for a while.

[John Campbell]

Stopped into my regional sporting goods chain today just to see what the powder supply situation was like. I think "nonexistent" sums it up. They used to have about 12 shelves, 15 feet long devoted to all kinds of reloading powders. Now these shelves are 99% empty. And absolutely NO shotgun powder of ANY kind or size is available.

But the BLM in Nevada seems to have plenty of guns and ammo at the moment...

[William Davis]

I was down to a half 14 oz can of Titewad, use it for 7/8 oz 12 g loads. Rationing my SxS shooting. Stopped in a shop out of town just looking, they had a fresh supply of 8 lb jugs of Red Dot. Had 8 lb jugs of 20/28 too, limiting purchases to one jug could not take advantage of it. They said it was a fresh supply just received. Alliant must be shipping.

Bill

[John Dallas]

Friend of mine just bought 4 boxes of .45 ACP for $19/box at Gander Mountain.

[Dean Romig]

How many rounds per box?

[John Dallas]

50. Don't know if that was one store (Detroit suburb) or if it is available everywhere

[Dean Romig]

That's a good price these days.

[John Dallas]

Don't think he told me the brand, but they are brass casings, not the aluminium junk

[edgarspencer]

At $19 a box, I'll bet it's something like Seiler & Bellot. If you're using it in a 1911, or clone, be sure the case mouth doesn't have a knurled edge. Lots of the Eastern European imports do, and they don't feed worth a darn.

[John Dallas]

The gun is a full race Wilson Combat. I'll bet it will digest anything yopu can get into the magazine.

[Brad Boyer]

You hit it on the head Paul!!! It's paranoia time...and the companies are taking advantage..You hoarders out there are yours and our worst enemy!!

[John Campbell]

... It's paranoia time...You hoarders out there are yours and our worst enemy!!

Egad! There must be nothing to fear or be circumspect of these days. I feel better now. I'm going to run out and buy a few more 8-pounders of Red Dot just to celebrate.

[Pete Lester]

Last weekend the Kittery Trading Post had a 2 day Winchester truckload ammunition sale. A couple of people I know went to the store before it opened on Saturday and found lines 50 people deep at each door. They had 333 packs of Winchester 22LR for $18 and some off name brand 50 rd boxes of 22LR for $4. They limited each customer to 3 boxes of each. My friends said the crowd around the shelf of 22 ammo was like a feeding frenzy of sharks and the 22 ammo sold out in a couple of minutes. It remains crazy out there.

I have also heard that a small gun store in Rochester NH is taking 22 LR ammo in trade towards the purchase of firearms and paying a premium price for it.

[Brad Boyer]

Nuff said!!!

[Richard B. Hoover]

I have unopened 1lb cans of Powder:

452 AA (1lb 4.9 oz -- weight of can and powder)

And
Hercules Bullseye (1 lb 2.9 oz) Pistol powder

And once opened:

473 AA (14.4 oz)

I do not reload these powders. If anyone can use them, I will bring them to the SXS.

Richard

[Pete Lester]

Well this doesn't help the situation. The Rio Ammunition plant had a fatal explosion and fire last week. I am going to guess their production of ammunition is going to be delayed for awhile.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/explosion-tenn-ammunition-factory-injures-4-report-article-1.1758901

[charlie cleveland]

whats next no strings or arrows for our bows...charlie

[John Campbell]

whats next no strings or arrows for our bows...charlie

You may be more right than you think. These Feds in in Nevada seemed to have plenty of ammo. To shoot cows:

http://www.infowars.com/bundy-family-uncovers-suspected-blm-cattle-grave/

Can you think of anyone else in history who has done this? Except with people...

[Milton Starr]

Just looked rst has no 10 ga ammo ! And probably wont for awhile because of powder/hull shortage . I just ordered some gaugemates gold 10 ga to 16 ga . wanted 20ga ones but they sold out and are selling off leftover stock . I can get 16 ga ammo easily . Guess I should hide my 4 boxes of rst and just shoot 16ga until rst gets back to it .