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ray you sure have given me chore in trying to make my old 8 ga shoot with your gun...my problem is i can not get the good wadding you can get for a 12 ga but i do have an iddeas to try...hey you may have all of us shooting 20 gas if you get your boys gun to put 40 pellets in a 10 inch circle at70 yards...hope you continue working on the 20 ga loads and gun i will keep working on the 8 ga load...will try a load in a few minutes... charlie