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I forgot to mention in my shooting the 8 ga today that Iset up a 5 gallon plastic bucket filled with water. I shot the bucket at 40 yards it put one hole in front and blew the back side out of it.I do not think a wad would do this. i shot the bucket several more times withboth sides penatrated good. I shot this 8 ga a total of 46 times this evening with all loads shooting like slugs. charlie