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Bruce Day
PGCA Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 26th, 2009 01:56 pm |
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I thought I might bring up what may be to some an interesting topic that at least to me raises questions.
Some years ago I obtained from Austin Hogan an interesting C grade two barrel set, SN 65,557, an 1889 gun made 13 years after a certain Michigander army man took his troops to the Bighorn and failed to return. Its a 10ga 12ga on a number 2 frame, and I have always heard these were made for waterfowl with one barrel set and upland game with the other.
Here's the gun, nice wood, the photo does not do it justice. The skeleton butt has been replaced by a black pad. I thought sometime I might put a skeleton butt plate back on, as the stock was not shortened.
Attached Image (viewed 353 times):
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Bruce Day
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Bruce Day
PGCA Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 26th, 2009 02:07 pm |
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It has 10ga damascus barrels and 12ga Bernard barrels. Two frame. The damascus 10ga barrels are 26" and unstruck wt is 4lbs 4oz. IC and IC with original chokes. With the 10ga barrels the gun weighs 8lbs 10oz.
The Bernard barrels were originally 30", but have been cut to 28", still IC and IC in both barrels, so they must have been full and full originally. Unstruck weight is an even 6lbs. With the 12ga barrels, the gun weighs 9lbs 14oz. Not much contour to the 12's, and wall thickness in the .040's.
Dale Edmonds refinished both barrel sets. Del Grego's cleaned out the action and de rusted the locking bolt and lever assembly. Lou Rotelli re soldered both barrel forend lugs and tightened the action so that the 12ga barrels were on face. That was not easy because the 12's were way off face and the 10's were fine.
Attached Image (viewed 347 times):
 Last edited on Thu Mar 26th, 2009 02:10 pm by Bruce Day
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Bruce Day
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Bruce Day
PGCA Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 26th, 2009 02:09 pm |
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| Top view. Attached Image (viewed 344 times):
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Bruce Day
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Bruce Day
PGCA Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 26th, 2009 02:12 pm |
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| The action frame has the common C grade stag motif. Attached Image (viewed 341 times):
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Bruce Day
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Bruce Day
PGCA Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 26th, 2009 02:13 pm |
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| Bernard 12ga barrel flats: Attached Image (viewed 341 times):
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Bruce Day
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Bruce Day
PGCA Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 26th, 2009 02:23 pm |
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Damascus 10ga barrel flats. I have always heard that the 10ga, such as in 26" barrels as these, were called light 10's, and used for upland game. This gun went to Portsmouth NH, and what I understand is upland game there, is ruffed grouse and woodcock. I don't think of a 8lb 10oz gun as a lightweight upland game gun and would not like to carry such a gun through the grouse woods all day. At the time ( 1889) a person could buy a true lightweight game gun, a 1 frame 12 or a 16, that would be below 7lbs. For the price of the extra 10ga barrel set on the C, they could buy a nice G grade light 12 or 16. And the gun would have been almost two pounds lighter.
I don't know enough about these so called light upland 10's, and its interesting because to my thinking, they weren't very light. And I'm not a New England grouse hunter to know how a 10 would have any advantage over a lighter smaller bore gun.
Attached Image (viewed 335 times):
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Bruce Day
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Bruce Day
PGCA Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 26th, 2009 02:24 pm |
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| I have only the number 2 forend, and would like to find the number 1. Attached Image (viewed 334 times):
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Bruce Day
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Thu Mar 26th, 2009 05:43 pm |
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| Two frame tens were made as light as 7 pounds, 8 ounces, like my D Grade 27" gun. Another, a G Grade 28" gun, weighs 7 pounds, 12 ounces. We did not weigh the #1 frame 26" 10 gauge gun when we had a chance a few years ago, but it may have been even lighter. My #3 frame B Grade 10 weighs exactly 7 pounds, 8 ounces on a #3 frame, but it has 18" barrels. Your C Grade is a wonderful gun.
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Bruce Day
PGCA Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 26th, 2009 06:12 pm |
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These 10ga barrels look like they are in the .030's to me but the barrels you are describing must be considerably thinner. I had no idea that you could safely get a Parker 10ga down to that kind of weight.
Thanks for the compliment on the gun. Its a heavyweight for sure and has been a project gun for Austin and me.
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Bruce Day
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Thu Mar 26th, 2009 06:37 pm |
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| I would not fire the #1 frame ten that Austin and I have both examined. The chambers are very thin, but still intact. My #2 frame tens seem to be just fine. Open bored light tens are very nice for ducks as well as upland game. I doubt that an eight pound ten was ordered for grouse or woodcock, more likely for ducks.
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E Robert Fabian
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Posted: Fri Mar 27th, 2009 01:36 am |
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| Bruce, do you have a name that the gun was shipped to in NH? Nice CH Last edited on Fri Mar 27th, 2009 01:37 am by E Robert Fabian
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Bruce Day
PGCA Member
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Posted: Fri Mar 27th, 2009 02:06 pm |
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I do. J. B. Stevens Jr. of Dover NH.
I can read some of the writing but not all. The 30" 12ga Bernard wt was to be 9 to 9 1/2 and the 10ga 26" wt was to be 7 3/4 but both are low for the actual wt of the gun.
It was supposed to be "Target wood powder & make ????" I don't know how Mark Conrad reads this stuff.
Attached Image (viewed 191 times):
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E Robert Fabian
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Posted: Fri Mar 27th, 2009 09:40 pm |
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| Looks like the Stevens where popular in Dover. Attached Image (viewed 164 times):
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Fri Mar 27th, 2009 10:13 pm |
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| Bruce, I think there is another line on the order which may help to identify the words after the "wood powder" wording. Both Mark and I have read thousands of pages of Parker orders and still find some we cannot decipher. If Mark will post the entire order, I will give it another try.
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Bruce Day
PGCA Member
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Posted: Fri Mar 27th, 2009 10:57 pm |
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Thanks, this is all I have.
Notice the order above. In 1891 Parker was sending out a rubber butt for SN 60103. Sometimes we think of rubber pads as coming late, but not so.
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Sat Mar 28th, 2009 01:33 am |
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| Bruce, a "rubber butt" is a dog's head buttplate. Various other terms were used for recoil pads, sometimes "recoil butt", sometimes something else. Recoil pads came pretty early however. Austin has the information about the earliest dates. Last edited on Sat Mar 28th, 2009 01:42 am by Bill Murphy
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Bruce Day
PGCA Member
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Posted: Sat Mar 28th, 2009 01:40 am |
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| Damn. I thought "rubber butt" was a recoil pad, like a Silvers.
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Sat Mar 28th, 2009 01:46 am |
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| Actually, the "rubber butt" took on several meanings to the tired and bored PGCA Research Team of 1998. Doctor Dave Rozier took great pleasure in referring to them as "Rub her butts!". Every time we found such a reference in the records after we found out what the reference referred to, everyone just howled.
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Dean Romig
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Posted: Sat Mar 28th, 2009 01:46 am |
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| I have one that called for a "Silvers butt". But that was 1908, not especially early.
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Austin W Hogan
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Posted: Sat Mar 28th, 2009 02:24 am |
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Target with Wood Powder and make tag for Do; I was never sure if the wood powder was generic or the specific formulation, but "make tag for do" means put that on the hang tag.
Best, Austin
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