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Gregory Dershem
PGCA Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 27th, 2006 03:31 pm |
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Richard Flanders wrote: It seemed that way to me when I bought it. I'd be curious if anyone else has seen that bad a fit on an all-original gun.
Yep, I have. I've got an early 20's VH 12, matching numbers, barrels as described in the Serialization Book. And the fit of the doll's head is very similar to yours. My gun, which isn't nearly as pretty as yours, also has the same looseness you describe, complete with rattling forearm. A piece of .002 feeler gage, curled around the roll as Austin describes above, completely eliminates all looseness on my example.
Another mid 20's VH I own shows a much better doll's head fit but it's still far from perfect.
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Richard Flanders
PGCA Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 27th, 2006 03:54 pm |
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| Interesting. Thanks. Seems that Parker may have had a few chipmanzees in the assembly shop during the early 20's.... Anyone else have a comment on this?
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Bill Murphy
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 10th, 2005 |
| Location: | Maryland USA |
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Posted: Mon May 1st, 2006 12:50 pm |
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| I have a 20's VH which is nearly a benchmark gun but rattles on the hinge pin. I never understood why and haven't messed with it. It looks like it has been fired maybe 1000 times and never carried in the field. My 1929 AHE Trap rattles on the hinge pin, but it was shot a lot in an earlier life by a high volume shooter of pigeons and ATA birds, so I don't know if it left the factory rattling. The doll's head fit on both of these guns is very acceptable.
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Richard Flanders
PGCA Member
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Posted: Sat May 6th, 2006 02:19 am |
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| It seems that there are some that are just plain loose. By the way, I just joined PGCA as a life DHE member.... Look forward to the parker pages and learning more about my favorite topic...
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Richard Flanders
PGCA Member
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Posted: Tue May 9th, 2006 03:59 am |
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| I dug out some .002" steel shim material that has been languishing in my tool box for 35yrs or so and cut a small ribbon, curled it, and put in on the hinge pin....! Nice! The gun closed tight with none of the side to side looseness it has without the shim. The forepiece has to be lightly whacked on and I can only see a very tiny bit of light through the face joint, right at the bottom. The shim tightened it up nicely. I think I'll just leave it in there.
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Bill Murphy
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 10th, 2005 |
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Posted: Tue May 9th, 2006 02:14 pm |
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| A talented gunsmith or machinist can invisibly install that same shim material on the hook, permanently, and achieve the same result. I would just like to know the name of the person who does that competently and for a reasonable price. Who is that person and what is the price?
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Richard Flanders
PGCA Member
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Posted: Tue May 9th, 2006 02:46 pm |
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| I think that it could be done with super glue myself. The shim did seem to slide and bunch up a bit at the bottom but is now staying in place that way and not interfering when I take the gun apart or open and close it. If you could get the shim to stay in place with a dab of SG on a hinge pin cleaned with alcohol then close the gun to compress the glue it would likely stay forever. Maybe make a longer ribbon that would hang out the front so you could hold it in place while you put the barrels on after which you'd deftly cut the extra off. My shim material seems ideal. It's 'springy' and holds a good curl. I'd be glad to send you a small piece to try for a solution. I have about 1 sq. ft. of it. You'd never notice my piece of shim on the pin if I didn't point it out to you. It's all but invisible. Alternately, I bet I could glue it onto the hook the same way. This is going to be fun. You can't hurt anything. Super glue is heat sensitive and comes off metal easily if it doesn't work as planned. It would be easier to trim the extra off the hook than the pin also. Last edited on Tue May 9th, 2006 02:49 pm by Richard Flanders
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Frank DAmico
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Mon Dec 5th, 2005 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 1086 |
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Posted: Tue May 9th, 2006 02:59 pm |
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| I wonder if it could be soldered to the hook?
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Richard Flanders
PGCA Member
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Posted: Tue May 9th, 2006 03:26 pm |
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| That would be a simple task assuming your shim material would take solder, but getting it tight so that you're adding as close to just the .002" and not shim+solder would be the problem. I thought of that and will think about it for a while. If you tinned the shim material with solder then somehow could make up something that would hold it onto the hook under pressure while you very deftly/gently heated it until the solder melted and flowed and the shim settled tight it would work and be easily trimmed and cleaned up with a dremel and polishing bit afterwards. I think I'd be pretty hesitant to heat the hook like that though, especially if it's a hardened part. Solder melts at around 700deg. I would make up something like a bolt of hinge pin diameter to hold the shim onto the hook then heat the bolt so that the heat would transfer through to the shim/solder and minimize the heating of the hook. Scares me to just think of monkeying with a Parker this way!
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Bill Murphy
PGCA Member
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Posted: Tue May 9th, 2006 03:42 pm |
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| I have an early A Grade Fox that has a Super Glued shim on the forend lug that has been in place for about five years. I would rather solder the shim in the hook than to use Super Glue, however. Ice in the bores and wet, cold rags everywhere else should protect the areas around the hook from heat damage. I would just like to know the name of someone who does it for profit and does not have to experiment. This is not rocket science but it is nice to have someone doing it who has done it before with some success. I don't think that the pin is the place to install the shim. I would prefer the hook for accessibility and ease of removal. OK, who is the guy who does this every day?
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Kevin Finnerty
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 23rd, 2005 |
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Posted: Tue May 9th, 2006 04:08 pm |
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Nickolas J. Mackinson
Real live English Gunmaker....
His ad is in the Double Gun Journal (for the past 15 years or so)
He is, among other things, a metallurgist as well as a Double Rifle Maker
.....He has done at least 7 re-face and gas seal operations for me (all on Parkers!)
and I'm still shooting them all and each is as tight and precise at the breech as the day it returned from his shop
.....I'd say the man is as good as it gets
Have Fun! -Kevin
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Larry Frey
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Fri Jan 7th, 2005 |
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Posted: Tue May 9th, 2006 04:09 pm |
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| Bill I believe it was Mike Orlen from Amherst Mass. that had a post on gunshop.com in which he described the solder/shim process and had pictures as well. I think it was in the last year so perhaps if someone were ambitious they could find the link and post it here. If you don't want to try it yourself you could call Mike and see what he charges for this work. Larry
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Jim Williams
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Posted: Wed May 10th, 2006 02:18 am |
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I haven't tried this yet, but I believe instead of super glue, one could use bearing-grade loc-tite to attach the carefully trimmed shim to the hook. A drill bit of the proper diameter to fit the inside of the hook would be the "jig" to hold the shim in place against the hook while the loc-tite sets (with rubber bands or a clamp of some sort to hold the bit tight against the shim and the hook). Currently, I use a dab of grease to keep the shim in place on the hinge pin, but it will shift occasionally, and you need to make sure it is placed properly when re-assembling the gun after cleaning. Bearing grade loc-tite should hold forever, but I believe could be removed with heat (much less that what would affect the solder joint of the bottom rib).
Jim
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Richard Flanders
PGCA Member
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Posted: Wed May 10th, 2006 03:53 am |
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| Did you know that all forms of loctite are just super glue?
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Jim Williams
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Posted: Wed May 10th, 2006 05:33 am |
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Richard,
I'm not a chemist, but I do know that all forms of "super glue" are cyanoacrylate, whereas the thread/bearing lockers are labeled as methacrylate ester. Loc-Tite brand does market their own version of a cyanoacrylate glue, but it is quite different than thread locker or bearing locker. Cyanoacrylate glues set-up in seconds, whereas the thread and bearing lockers take hours or days. Perhaps they are quite closely related, but their applications and performance are certainly different. But for that matter, the different formulations of Cy-A glues are quite different in their handling qualities and applications.
Jim
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Richard Flanders
PGCA Member
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Posted: Wed May 10th, 2006 06:25 am |
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| Good info. Thanks. I've been told that they are closely related but have never know how close really. Not setting up so fast would be good for securing a shim on the hook. I have a Loctite catalog of products on the shelf. You have a recommendation for a particular Loctite product that might work for this? They make quite a range of them if I remember correctly.
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Bill Murphy
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Posted: Wed May 10th, 2006 12:50 pm |
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| Just a day or two ago, there was another news story about an unwary customer being glued to a toilet seat in a local Wal-Mart. How does the practical joker manage to keep his adhesive in liquid form until the proper bottom contacts the toilet seat yet get immediate, non reversible adhesion on contact? I want the stuff he uses.
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Jim Williams
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Posted: Wed May 10th, 2006 02:18 pm |
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Richard,
I haven't tried it yet, so no recommendations, just theories. As to which specific product, there is a formulation available in auto parts houses that is used to lock bearings into place. This requires more strength than just a thread lock compound, so it would be my theoretical choice. I intend to buy some and adhere a piece of shim stock to a piece of mild steel, then test it for strength, etc., then attempt to disassemble it with a little heat and see how well it cleans up (in case you ever need to remove it from the hook). I'll get around to it sometime...
Jim
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Richard Flanders
PGCA Member
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Posted: Wed May 10th, 2006 03:19 pm |
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| I'll look into what is available from Loctite. I think all of the acrylate glues are heat sensitive and should be easily removable from steel tho I'd bet that one of the differences between SG and bearing lock is it's heat resistance; I doubt chemical resistance is an issue with what we're up to here. I can't fine my Loctite catalog but a look online will no doubt produce something.
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Richard Flanders
PGCA Member
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Posted: Wed May 10th, 2006 04:34 pm |
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Jim, Go to this site for a description of Loctite products. Sounds like 609 is what you have referred to. I think 430 and 498 or especially 262 would work fine. I think I'll try 262 if I can find it. There is also a very useful curing time table on this page also.
http://www.smallparts.com/products/descriptions/al.cfmLast edited on Wed May 10th, 2006 04:38 pm by Richard Flanders
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