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GUNDOC
Member
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Posted: Mon Feb 7th, 2005 10:53 am |
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| One of the best ways to stablize "punky/soft" wood that I have found is to use Acra-glass liquid-not the gel. Apply sparingly, like with a tooth pick, to the affected areas of checkering, let set up for 24-36 hrs. and it checkers almost as good as the original wood. Regarding oil soaked wood, I've found time, whiting, and low heat-Jeff's 100 watt bulb is my favorite too. I've found that the more aggressive approach with acetone,etc., is just to harsh for some of these old beauties. Thanks and good luck. Dr. BILL
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Jeff Mulliken
PGCA Member
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Posted: Mon Feb 7th, 2005 12:40 pm |
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I thought about the rela thin "super" glues but wouldn't cyanoacrylic glue seal the wood so that the final finish cannot get into the wood and do it's thing?
Jeff
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GUNDOC
Member
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Posted: Mon Feb 7th, 2005 12:52 pm |
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| Jeff, not sure if your question is addressed to my last, but Acra-glass acts as a filler/"replacement". And yes the cyanolacs seem to fill/seal the wood so that whatever finish you choose will "stay on top" rather than penetrate in and fill the pores. Dr. BILL
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weston croft-temp
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Posted: Mon Feb 7th, 2005 01:22 pm |
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What is the "French Polish"method? I guess I've owned 5 guns and no two seemed to have the same finish so I don't know what "original" looks like.
I'm very comfortable with and enjoy doing oil finishes. Forgetting originality, is there an advantage to one finish over the other?
Weston
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GUNDOC
Member
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Posted: Mon Feb 7th, 2005 02:57 pm |
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| Weston, Wood finishes - sortta like asking do you prefer blondes or reheads,etc. Also loooong hx. Briefly, other than duplicating the original finishes base on varnish and shellac, there are two types. One is the "modern" factory polyurethane base that is tough, bright, and when damaged must be (usually) replaced intoto?complete refinish. Second is "oil" as done by skilled hobbyists and many gunsmiths. The "oil" in question is either linseed or tung. Both are natural products and produce a softer, "deeper", ?richer?, finish that can easily be "repaired" in part. Better???? Personally I do "oil" but, BUT, I put up to 30+ coats on and sand beteen applications with 1000-1500 grit paper/rubbing compound. Such work is measured in months, not days. But as Will Rogers said, "T'is a difference of opinion that makes 'hos racin and missionaries". Best, Dr. Bill
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Jeff Mulliken
PGCA Member
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Posted: Mon Feb 7th, 2005 04:17 pm |
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Weston,
French polish is a finish that utilizes shellac and oil. I believe it has a similar look to oil, but with a little more gloss and better moisture resistance as well. It dries and builds up a lot faster than traditional oil finishes. It can be polished out or touched up sort of like oil.
Jeff
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Jerry VanHorn
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Posted: Mon Feb 7th, 2005 05:24 pm |
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| Just to put in my 2c worth on wood finishes....I tried a few different things over the years, but an old gunsmith showed me what a 50/50 mix of PURE tung oil and the best spar varnish would do. I'm doing a GH 12 Hammer now, and it amazed me. One rubbing in the morning..another at night. He suggested 12-14 coats.....Jerry
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Jeff Mulliken
PGCA Member
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Posted: Mon Feb 7th, 2005 05:55 pm |
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How did you apply the mixture? Can you sand it in to fill pores? Hand rub it like straight oil? Or do you need to brush it and sand after each coat? I tried a similar mix of tung and spar urethane and had trouble getting it to work right.
I also tried pure tung on an A5, it took forever. If you put on too thick a coat or didn't wait long enough between coats it turns to goo. I bet it took 25 thin applications to get it where I wanted, but looks outstanding and held up pretty well to a season of abuse in a duck blind.
Jeff
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Jerry VanHorn
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Posted: Mon Feb 7th, 2005 06:21 pm |
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| Jeff...The stock I tried first..as a test..was a Remington rifle stock...I used Home Depot stripper...Let it dry on top of the hot water heater for 24 hrs..One pass with 220..then 400. I put 6 coats on it. It turned out great...SO...I did the same to the GH. My friend said the secret is the BEST PURE tung oil you can buy...Like from Rocklers Woodworking...Put just enough on your fingertips to put a shine on the wood, then rub with the heel of you hand till about dry. I put a coat on mine at 7 this morning, and its dry to the touch now...7hrs. The more coats you apply, the more the pores are filled. This finish can be repaired after sanding out a scratch. If you lay the GH next to a "benchmark" stock...you would be hard pressed to notice much difference. Pure tung alone will not shine..hence the SATIN finish varnish mix. According to him, the dryers in the varnish mix perfectly at 50/50 with the tung oil and produce the finish and the drying times. He said he learned this at the Colorado School 40 years ago. I know this for certain..The days of paying big bucks for a professional refinish are over..I don't checker...so that will be the only expense. The mix needs to be kept from air...a tiny bottle will do 10 stocks..Then he said to drop a penny or two in the container to take up air space....Give it a try...you'll be surprised..Jerry
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Jeff Mulliken
PGCA Member
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Posted: Mon Feb 7th, 2005 07:32 pm |
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Gerry,
Did you sand between coats at all? Have you ever wet sanded with the mix as a lubricant to fill in the pores?
Jeff
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weston croft-temp
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Posted: Mon Feb 7th, 2005 07:34 pm |
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I'm reasonably sure Formby's tung oil furniture finish, which is prevalent at ACE, Home Depot, ec, is a tung oil and varnish mix. Works great and fun to apply by hand with quick drying times.
Tru-oil is I think a linseed and varnish mix and performs much the same way on gun stocks.
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Jerry VanHorn
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Posted: Mon Feb 7th, 2005 07:41 pm |
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| I didn't sand at all after the first time. I just looked at my stock...it is completely dry now...and you can tell a bit of difference in filling the pores each time you apply a coat. Again..He told me to use it sparingly and rub till its worked in. I would think that 20-24 applications would be about right. Also..I put the grip cap and buttplate back on and give them a good rub too. Why don't you try it on another stock first? Then if you don't like it, try another formula..Jerry
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Jerry VanHorn
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Posted: Mon Feb 7th, 2005 07:46 pm |
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| Weston..Everyone has a favorite...All I know is that my guy said to mix it myself and to stay away from commercial products. I figure that since he has been doing this for years...and is about to retire...that I would do it exactly as his experience has taught him. It costs a little more, but I think it's worth it. Again, just my 2c worth...Jerry
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weston croft-temp
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Posted: Mon Feb 7th, 2005 08:07 pm |
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Jerry,
Do you tape off the checkered areas to avoid filling and sanding them?
Weston
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Jerry VanHorn
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Posted: Mon Feb 7th, 2005 08:16 pm |
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| This particular stock was in excellent condition, except that the old varnish had turned black. After I stripped it, I carefully avoided the checkering , just going to the edge of the pattern. I will have to have the forend recut, so I didn't worry much about it. The last thing after application..use an old toothbrush to clean out the checkering...if it doesn't need recut. Again, this stock was very nice. The chalked SN was still under the BP..but the finish was BLACK..1884 gun...Jerry
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Jerry VanHorn
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Posted: Mon Feb 7th, 2005 09:12 pm |
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| Hope I don't have to file this under.." I should have left well enough alone "..But to answer the sanding between coats questions..I just wet sanded..with water..600 grit and will apply another coat. Guess I'll have my answer in the morning........j
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Jeff Mulliken
PGCA Member
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Posted: Mon Feb 7th, 2005 11:21 pm |
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I've wet sanded using the finish itself, either linseed or tung oil, it is a great way to fill in the pores without building up the finish too thick. After wet sanding you can leave the slurry on and let it harden in place then after the last wet sanding with finish you wipe it down and put on a couple of drops clean and rub them in, several days apart to sort of top coat it.
I am curious as to whether the varnish causes any challenge with the wet sanding.
Jeff
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Jerry VanHorn
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Posted: Tue Feb 8th, 2005 03:11 am |
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| I'll put a few coats on starting tomorrow and let you know in a couple days what the differences in the 2 stocks are...Jerry
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James Williams
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Posted: Tue Feb 8th, 2005 04:48 am |
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Jeff,
Back to your question about cyano- glues, I'm not sure what you mean by not allowing the finish to get into the wood to "do it's thing." If you mean protect the wood, then the CA glue will protect much better than the finish because it will soak in deeper and is much harder (this is only true with the thin formulas) and is impervious to just about anything except pure acetone. If you mean filling pores, then no - but you will still be applying finish over the top which will then fill the pores, but you aren't going to be completely filling pores in cut checkering anyway. The CA glues cure to a hard clear color that tends to disappear under the finish coats. I have filled surface cracks with it and built up finish over the top until everything was level and glass-smooth. The result is hard to distinguish from the ordinary grain of the wood. As to staining, I don't believe you would be able to go back and get stain to take to wood that has had CA applied, but if you are re-cutting the checkering and only applying the CA to toughen the wood, you may be back to nearly bare wood by the time you finish cutting.
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Jeff Mulliken
PGCA Member
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Posted: Tue Feb 8th, 2005 11:06 am |
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My concern was related to getting the finish to adhere to the repaired surface. So far I've only used cyano gliues in areas that are hidden and not on a surface that was to be finished. The oil based finishes feel hard to the touch but are pretty soft, and they do add some color. I have always assumed that they needed some penetration or texture to cling to and the cyano glues would probably prevent that. However it sounds like in your experience they cling to the cyano just fine.
Jeff
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