Parker Gun Collectors Association Forums  

Go Back   Parker Gun Collectors Association Forums Non-Parker Specific & General Discussions General Discussions about Other Fine Doubles

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
English gun makers - reputations
Old 06-20-2011, 01:21 PM   #1
Member
TARNATION !!!
PGCA Lifetime
Member
 
Jack Cronkhite's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,342
Thanks: 693
Thanked 948 Times in 377 Posts

Default English gun makers - reputations

Let's say we are looking at a field grade basic English SXS.
As an opinion, how would you order this list. Best rep being #1

This is in random order, as I don't know them but have seen some and even purchased a Boswell hammer gun, just because it is pretty and different with its under-lever.

Thomas Bland and sons
W.P. Jones
Charles Boswell
Hardy Bros
BSA
Hunter and Sons (actually Irish from Belfast - just to clear that up and not cause an international incident)
Greener
Churchill
Charles Hellis and Sons

If you know others that are not listed and deserve top rating, please add.
__________________
Hunt ethically. Eat heartily.
Jack Cronkhite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2011, 03:28 PM   #2
Member
Theodore LeDurt
Forum Associate

Member Info
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 88
Thanks: 1
Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts

Default

Jack, not quite sure what you are asking, but the names omitted from your list probably exceed the number listed. If you are trying to compare quality in "gamekeeper" guns, good luck. The British trade made numerous B and C quality guns for the non rich. Many of these companies also made "best" grades. The difference is in finish and engraving, and most the barrels and actions were made by a few companies and only the finish work by the maker.

If they are still functioning and have stood the test of time (and have good barrel wall thickness), they will probably continue for years.
__________________
Fox Island Chesapeake Kennels
Home of AKC Dual Award Winner
CH Anubis Treasured Bettis MH
Theodore LeDurt is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Theodore LeDurt For Your Post:
Old 06-20-2011, 03:54 PM   #3
Member
TARNATION !!!
PGCA Lifetime
Member
 
Jack Cronkhite's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,342
Thanks: 693
Thanked 948 Times in 377 Posts

Default

Thanks Theodore: The list is comprised of those I have recently seen on Canadian sites. Our market is quite different from yours. Even nice guns languish for sale over long periods and may not sell, even though they are listed well below your market, at auction or on-line. Interest in gun ownership here has waned significantly since the introduction of a variety of control measures in the 1990's. Our newly minted majority Conservative government will be eliminating the long gun registry but there remains a lot of bureaucracy to navigate regardless.

Should I encounter a nice English gun that is crying to get back to shooting upland and I also like the look of it, I'll take your assertion to heart:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodore LeDurt View Post
If they are still functioning and have stood the test of time (and have good barrel wall thickness), they will probably continue for years.
Cheers,
Jack
__________________
Hunt ethically. Eat heartily.
Jack Cronkhite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2011, 04:09 PM   #4
Member
charlie cleveland
PGCA Member

Member Info
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,645
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,816 Times in 1,104 Posts

Default

jack i like the jp claybrough and sons...i have a 10 ga of this make with hammers that came from up in your neck of the woods...i bought it from a gent who had it for 40 years and he said the seller he bought it from was in his 90s and said it was his grandpas gun...the old gun was made in the 1870s still tite fair bores weighs 8 1/2 lbs with 32 inch barrels..its a real squirl killer...wood very good yet no cracks and tite and on face...workmanship has to be good to stand the test of time and this old gun has done this..... charlie
charlie cleveland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2011, 05:58 PM   #5
Member
Bill Murphy
PGCA Lifetime
Member Since
Second Grade

Member Info
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,884
Thanks: 1,873
Thanked 2,318 Times in 1,338 Posts

Default

British guns are better bought for condition and low mileage than for name if you want your money back some day. Rattletraps tightened up by blacksmith methods will be impossible to sell by your heirs. Buy nameless guns in high condition and you will be rewarded when you sell. You will also not have to pay for needed repairs.
Bill Murphy is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Bill Murphy For Your Post:
Old 06-20-2011, 06:10 PM   #6
Member
charlie cleveland
PGCA Member

Member Info
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,645
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,816 Times in 1,104 Posts

Default

well said bill....but sometimes i just cant turn down that piece junk i should have left behind... charlie
charlie cleveland is offline   Reply With Quote
W & C Scott & Son doubles
Old 06-20-2011, 07:48 PM   #7
Member
Old and Reliable
PGCA Member

Member Info
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,248
Thanks: 1,674
Thanked 355 Times in 236 Posts

Default W & C Scott & Son doubles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodore LeDurt View Post
Jack, not quite sure what you are asking, but the names omitted from your list probably exceed the number listed. If you are trying to compare quality in "gamekeeper" guns, good luck. The British trade made numerous B and C quality guns for the non rich. Many of these companies also made "best" grades. The difference is in finish and engraving, and most the barrels and actions were made by a few companies and only the finish work by the maker.

If they are still functioning and have stood the test of time (and have good barrel wall thickness), they will probably continue for years.
These fine London guns once 'ruled the roost' both here and over there for live bird shooters: W & C Scott, Purdey, Henry Aiken, Joseph Land, Westley Richards, Powell. I wish I hung on to my grandfather's 12 hammer Purdey live bird gun- he sent it back to London in July 1914 to be re-proofed for smokeless pigeon loads- bad timing- didn't get it back until 1922- "spot o'war, old chappie, ey wot?" With Canada part of the British Empire back then, I wonder how many of the fine London and Birmingham made double guns are extant in the great land of hockey, walleye, great beers and superb waterfowling--???
Francis Morin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2011, 08:50 PM   #8
Member
TARNATION !!!
PGCA Lifetime
Member
 
Jack Cronkhite's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,342
Thanks: 693
Thanked 948 Times in 377 Posts

Default

I do keep seeing them crop up and more often than Parkers for sure. Without having them in hand, I have seen what appear to be VG or better. They range from 1K to 3K $$. I watch them sit around for months. Too many toys for my toy budget. Should I be looking at them as "investments" rather than toys?? Hmmmmmm.......
Cheers,
Jack
__________________
Hunt ethically. Eat heartily.
Jack Cronkhite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2011, 10:46 PM   #9
Member
TARNATION !!!
PGCA Lifetime
Member
 
Jack Cronkhite's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,342
Thanks: 693
Thanked 948 Times in 377 Posts

Default

Here's one example. Asking 1500. Built around 1950. Looks decent without knowing important details (bwt) Don't know if that price is good/bad/indifferent. I would equate grade to a VH as an opinion. A VH in this condition would command a higher price I believe. Thoughts........
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Picture 003 (Small).jpg (23.6 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg Picture 005 (Small).jpg (15.0 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg Picture 009 (Small).jpg (18.7 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg Picture 010 (Small).jpg (49.9 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg Picture 011 (Small).jpg (29.2 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg Picture 014 (Small).jpg (42.6 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg Picture 017 (Small).jpg (20.6 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg Picture 019 (Small).jpg (33.8 KB, 5 views)
__________________
Hunt ethically. Eat heartily.
Jack Cronkhite is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jack Cronkhite For Your Post:
Old 06-21-2011, 07:45 AM   #10
Member
C.O.B.
PGCA Member
 
Rich Anderson's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,385
Thanks: 876
Thanked 2,279 Times in 811 Posts

Default

W&C Scott made the actions for many of the other manufacturers. They produced guns under their own name but also supplied actions for Thomas Bland, Westly Richards, Army Navy, Cogswell & Harrison, William & Powell ect. A westly Richards will bring a higher price than an Army Navy all things being equall because of their name. English box locks have come down in cost in recent years. Last year at the U.P. shoot I was considering a nice William & Powell 16ga damascuss gun. I spoke to Hugh Lomas a noted English gun smith who actually had sold the gun and it was he who told me this. The seller did manage to get his desired price but not from me.

I have heard of and seen guns from the following makers on your list. Thomas Bland, Charles Boswell, Greener, Churchill & Charles Hellis. They are all good names and as in everything condition is the deciding factor. There was a Thomas Bland 28 at the U.P. shoot this weekend listed as possibly unfired for $10,500. I believe the action is from W&C Scott.

Charlie I also have a JP Claybough 12ga hammer gun that I recently adopted at a shoot for under $800. I shot my best ever round of 5 stand with it this weekend. JP Claybough was an importer from San Fransisco who purchased English guns made under his name.
Rich Anderson is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Rich Anderson For Your Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:19 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 1998 - 2009, Parkerguns.org
Copyright 2004 Design par Megatekno
- 2008 style update 3.7 avec l'autorisation de son auteur par Stradfred.