Pheasants in the East this fall..???

[John Dunkle]

Jen & I are thinking about taking a week and driving west for a day or two with our dogs (2 brits) for some Pheasant hunting (Sept or Oct. probably?). Anyway - does anyone have any recommendations? We've considered as far west as Iowa - but that's probably a good full two day drive, so maybe IN or PA or OH or..? And - I have no idea which states have good bird hunting!

The "perfect" setup would be two day hunt on wild birds with our own dogs. I don't think we'd need a guided hunt - and frankly, Jen would feel more comfortable with just our dogs and a really small group (like just her & I - as she's never been bird hunting, is taking Hunter Safety for her certificate/License, etc..).

Anyway - any recommendations on good pheasant, chukar and quail hunting outfits or guides, etc.?? I've been searching on the Internet for a few days - and there are a gazillion - but, if some of you have any suggestions - that would be just terrific!! (Ummm - and yes - I'd be hunting with a Parker - so this post is on-topic ;) )

Thanks in advance!

John

[Dean Romig]

Good luck to you and Jen, hope you have a wonderful time. Even as close as New York state and Pennsylvania there is some pretty decent pheasant hunting. You'll likely be knocking on a lot of doors though, trying to gain access to likely looking properties. I'll tell you there's some fine pheasant-looking land out by Hausman's Hidden Hollow but again, there's that access thing again. I don't know what the hunting regs say in other states but in Maine and NH and Vt if the land isn't posted it is understood that it is open to hunting. That being said, it is still considered 'good manners' to ask the land-owner for access. Maybe it's the same in other states - you can check the regs online.

[james van blaricum]

John, the seasons on Pheasants and Quail open in November in Kansas and runs thru the last of January and we have the Wildess of wild pheasants in the world. I think all of the States Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska and South Dakoda are about the same. I have had great hunting in all the States, am not sure about EAST.

James Van Blaricum

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Dean,

There are still wild pheasants east of the Mississippi? Ask guys who live in those states and I think you'll find out that it's really not the case. I know several guys in PA that haven't seen a wild bird in 10 years.

Northern Illinois has a few still, I think Greg S. still gets into them occasionally. Around Toledo, OH used to be great but they've completely disappeared from there.

Cross the river, that's your best bet and the least chance of a waste of time.

I've lived in Michigan for 9 years and have never seen a wild bird here.


Destry

[Bob Jurewicz]

John,
I live in Western NY. It used to be great pheasant country-no longer. I don't think you will find any wild birds in either NY or PA. Some of my released birds carry over but usually do not reproduce or even last till the next fall.
Grouse are another story. Good birds in many parts of NY and PA. Those Brits are well suited for them.
I do SD for wild Pheasant each year.
Bob Jurewicz

[Marc Retallack]

John,

The last wild pheasant I saw killed here in SE Penn. was when I was 15. I'm now 36. The PA Game Comm. is making small attempts to re-establish wild birds but the program is only in it's first years.

There a large tracts of state game lands that are stocked by the commision and some local groups. Expect large numbers of hunters, especially on days when they are stocking.

The 1st season runs from Oct. 24- Nov. 28. How old is Jen? If she is 16 or under, she can participate in the junior only hunt that runs Oct. 10-17.

What part of PA were you thinking of trying John? My brother and I have a hunt lease on a farm in Cumberland Cty. that we stock with pheasants and chukar. If you think joining us for a day might be of interest, feel free to email me at mdretallack@yahoo.com

All the best
Marcus

[Dean Romig]

I will readily admit when I'm wrong but in traveling through NY, PA and Ohio several times recently and seeing a number of them dead on the highway in NY and PA one naturally presumes them to be around in pretty fair numbers considering probably less than 1 or 2 percent of those birds crossing the highway don't make it. No, don't ask me what towns I saw the dead birds in because I can't answer that question. I think that if there are wild pheasants in eastern MA (a rarity and certainly not in huntable numbers) and they do exist in huntable numbers in western MA they certainly must exist in the more rural areas of NY and PA. I know what I seen and them there was fezzants!!

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Rhode Island Reds, must have been a lot of Tyson trucks running that highway.

DLH

[Ben Yarian]

Western PA is really bad for wild pheasants. Once in a while we will run into what most believe to be hold overs from the fall stocking. They mostly stay along the roads picking gravel and salt. It is ashame really, when I was a kid there was a huntable population of wild pheasants. I am really holding out hope for the new program the PA Game commision and Pheasants for ever have been working on. They are bringing in wild birds from the Dacota's and with cooperation of land owners are trying to reestablish a wild population.
Now Grouse is another story. Any where in north central Pa, usually has a nice population of grouse and they have been on the up swing the last few years.
Ben

[Marc Retallack]

Ben- I hope as well that this new program's a success. I grew up hearing my father's stories of pheasant hunting in Lancaster county in the 50's, 60's and early 70's. They sounded much like the stories I hear of the Dakotas now.

Dean- There are small pockets of wild birds.... They just aren't where I hunt:( I would wager the ones you saw were stocked. One back road I travel bisects the local game lands. It's not unusal to see a couple dozen pheasants on the road during hunting season and for a month or two after it closes. I still see one or two every so often this time of year.

Cheers
Marcus

[Dean Romig]

Hey John, disregard what I said about NY and PA - just drive right on through. Ain't no fezzants there I'm told :rolleyes:

(must be a very closely guarded secret I stumbled onto . . . shhhh)















Just foolin' guys - must be holdovers or stocked birds I saw :bigbye:

[John Dunkle]

Hey folks!!

Great read - great advice! My thanks! Honestly - I'm not surprised to hear about the conditions in Western NY or PA? I kind'a figured we might had to go further west? Dang...

Maybe I'll look into parts of Il - or find that Tyson truck DLH mentions..?? :) As plans get closer - I may throw some places I've contacted up into this thread - and see if anyone knows any particulars..?

Agian - my thanks!!

Also - anyone from my area want to go (Dean, Pete, Dave, Scott, Bob, etc..)? If so - it will be VERY laid back and should be a blast..!!!

Best to all - and thanks again!

John

[Fred Preston]

John, There's Pelee Island in Lake Erie, Canadian waters. A lot of people from the "north shore" have been there. I haven't, but I understand that it is loaded with "wild" birds. I'll bet Roger could fill you in on the details.

Fred

[Dean Romig]

John, I only wish . . . vacation time's already assigned :crying:

But, thank you for your kind consideration.

[james van blaricum]

Ever thought of welding a seat on the front of a Tyson's truck and riding thru the country side protecting the driver from those Phantom Fezzants??? JVB

[scott kittredge]

hi john, bob and i have been talking about this off and on a few times in the past. maybe we can put this together if i still have a job come this fall. i'll keep you posted and see you at MWSA i hope! scott

[Don Kaas]

There are no huntable populations of wild pheasants in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Every spring I see a few birds on my farm that have drifted over from a regulated shooting ground about 3/4 of a mile away. Within a few weeks, they are gone. When I bought my current property in 1986, there was a vibrant wild population-a limit on opening day for a couple of hunters was a forgone conclusion walking from the back door. When I moved back permanently in 1996 after 7 years living in Europe, there was not a pheasant to be found.

[Dean Romig]

Don, in the ten years you have experienced on your property to what do you attribute the decline in wild pheasant numbers? Predation by natural enemies, feral housecats, habitat loss in your general area or a combination of all these? I suspect a combination.

[tom tutwiler]

In the late 1970's I had a good friend who lived in Gettysburg and they had tons of pheasants. Good Brits and lots of birds made for a childhood for him. Far back as the early 1990's there were still pockets of wild birds in the same general area. For goodness sakes, you could drive the battlefields and see wild birds everywhere. Flashing forward, they are gone. Part is certainly a loss of habitat. Another large factor is predators. Between feral cats and avian predators, what few brood birds still around got decimated and it's stayed bad. I've heard from several folks that still hunt up there, that deer are King, Turkey's are a close second and grouse are third. Pheasants aren't even a factor. I don't see the trend as being reversed. Habitat is worse, predators are increasing etc. Back in the old days, the three SSS were followed very closely by farmers. Those three SSS's were "Shoot, Shovel and Shut up". No one is really doing that these days (right or wrong I might add). The fines are too much and most think its doesn't matter anyway.

Final note, is I hunt a wonderful piece of property located outside of Winchester Va. The owner has the desire and the equipment and land necessary to raise pheasants. He has the best habitat you could ever find, native grasses, food plots, corn, millet. You name, he has it all. Over the past 10 years he has probably stocked 500 pheasants on his own at his own expense. None have taken. He truly thinks between the Foxes, Coyotes, Raccoons (nest predators), hawks, feral cats etc. he can't win. He now has concentrated soley on getting his numbers of native quail up to a decent level. Probably has 5 covey's on the 200 plus acres. We never kill many, and when we hit a covey we shoot the rise and a couple of singles and move on. Might I also add, the deer and turkey population on this property has exploded in the past 5 years. Bottom line, is while some species can handle things, apparently pheasants can't. All that said, I'd love to take about 100 wild pheasants from from ND and transplant them to this farm just to see if they have the instincts and smarts necessary to survive and thrive. Anyway, one person's opinion.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I've always had in my mind the decline in small game was due in a large part to farm chemicals. Their use has spiked right along with the decline of wild pheasants, rabbits, and quail in the midwest.

Part of it is fur prices as well, nobody traps anymore because the pelts are near worthless. With no trappers and no coon hunters the predator population has run wild.

Destry

[Bruce Day]

I drove back across Kansas yesterday from Cimarron, NM. Saw several pheasants run or fly across the road in front of me. Looks to be another good year.

[Kevin Origoni]

I recall a time when the "garden state" of New Jersey had wild pheasants in the plentiful farmland that abounded here more than 45 years ago. Today it's a put and take proposition for wildlife on crowded state wildlife management areas and there are just too many winged and 4-footed predators to allow for any holdovers from year to year.

Native quail were everywhere as well in the southern portions of the state but are rarely found today.

[David Hamilton]

Here in Northern Virginia I have seen our grouse and quail disappear and at the same time a large increase in the hawk family, not to mention eagles. I believe that the hawks have wiped out our quail. A neighbor is attempting to introduce quail and has had some success. He says that one must provide massive ground cover in the form of tangles, brush and near-by food plants which are close to cover and include open ground. This is not easy with our thick growing fesque grasses which are too dense for the quail. David

[Kevin Origoni]

My uncle still has a small farm in Maryland. Along with his neighbors, we had access to some fine wild bird hunting going back 30 years. Plenty of native quail and pheasants then. Today, you won't find a pheasant anywhere on what land is left there that hasn't been turned into housing down there. We also used to hunt Virginia for quail but there are not many left. Lots of predators though.

My uncle has plenty of tangles of brush on his property and he continues to try and introduce some quail each year so he has something for his Setter to work, but they seem to succumb to the predators rather quickly.

[Dean Romig]

The Barred Owl and the Goshawk appear to be the greatest threat to the grouse population in Vermont where I do 90% of my upland hunting. The (roughly) ten-year cycles of Ruffed Grouse and other small game can probably be attributed to the increase in numbers of predators when these game birds are approaching their population apex. Then, as their numbers decrease drastically because of predation, the populations of predators decrease consequentially allowing the gamebird's populations to increase again.

[tom tutwiler]

Here in Northern Virginia I have seen our grouse and quail disappear and at the same time a large increase in the hawk family, not to mention eagles. I believe that the hawks have wiped out our quail. A neighbor is attempting to introduce quail and has had some success. He says that one must provide massive ground cover in the form of tangles, brush and near-by food plants which are close to cover and include open ground. This is not easy with our thick growing fesque grasses which are too dense for the quail. David

Ten to fifteen years ago I hunted some private property not far from Winchester Va. More grouse then one can imagine. This roughly 100 acre plot of land often yielded 25 flushes in two or three hours of walking around. Mind you, most of that was done without dogs, there were that many birds. We continued to work at the habitat. Lots of wild grapes were fertilized. Autumn Olives were planted, apple trees, food plots. Larger trees were cut down to increase young sprouts etc. Bottom line, is the birds continued to decline.

At the present state, we flushed four of five birds the whole season last year. We only shot at two and missed (probably a good thing). Our dogs are limited to put and take at a local preserve. Not the best, as they deserve better.

That's why we have wandered out west and to other parts of the country. This year I'm taking an old dog (two if you count me) and a young pup to Maine in October to bird hunt. I know it won't be fantastic, but no doubt we will get into more birds then her for sure.

I say it's predators more then anything else. I just can't think of anything else, as it sure isn't habitat IMO.

PS. A picture of my old dog (younger then) taken in ND. This was a 100 bird in the air at the same time day.

http://pic60.picturetrail.com/VOL1725/11830643/21521718/355608489.jpg

[Robert Delk]

Hawks are not that numerous as opposed to prey species and I would tend to think skunks,other members of the weasel family and raccoons are the main culprits.Ground nesting birds really get it from these predators, which are on the rise population wise, in many locales.I like birds of prey and they,after all, are killing to live as opposed to sport hunting for humans.Crows are another menace to all ground nesting birds. I have watched them many times raiding nests of ducks and other ground nesting birds. They, too, are just staying alive but their numbers need to be controlled as they have no problems adapting to human beings,something which cannot be said for most birds of prey.

[Dean Romig]

Tom, where in Maine are you planning to hunt in October? Will you be using an outfitter or guide?

[tom tutwiler]

I'm hunting on a piece of private property located not far from Belfast Maine. I've hunted there off and on a few times and have done fair. Not many grouse, lots of woodcock. Wife and I and two dogs are headed up on the 10th of October and plan to stay the entire week. She's never been up there before and wanted to check it out.

[Dean Romig]

Good to know Tom. A good friend owns 80 acres in Belfast and has offered to allow me to hunt there. He is also on very good terms with his neighbors on all three sides and they have sizable chunks of land too. That's coastal Downeast Maine and is known for it's woodcock numbers. Maybe I'll try it some year soon.

[tom tutwiler]

Good to know Tom. A good friend owns 80 acres in Belfast and has offered to allow me to hunt there. He is also on very good terms with his neighbors on all three sides and they have sizable chunks of land too. That's coastal Downeast Maine and is known for it's woodcock numbers. Maybe I'll try it some year soon.


We hunted a small parcel (10 acres) of land one year in early Fall and two of us had our limits of woodcock within minutes. I think we had 18 flush within ten minutes of hitting the cover. Those were all resident birds. That indeed was a special day. I'll see if I can dig out a photo or two and post it. Dogs were going insane. Haven't had that kind of action here in the east ever. Have had equal to that on pheasants in both ND, Kansas and Montana in the past.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Reminds me of the H.P. Sheldon story "Advice of Counsel"

DLH

[Dean Romig]

Yes Destry, and do you remember "The W. D. A."?

[John Dunkle]

Umm..?? Dean?

Destry isn't as old as you, apparently - and neither am I..??? You mean Roosevelt's W.P.A.??? Dang - that was in the 30's or something..??

Hells Bells - I'm not even so sure my parents remember W.P.A.??

:eek:

JD

[Dean Romig]

John, time to get thee to an eye doctor :shock:

Read my post one more time and you will see that I typed W. D. A. Which was for the Woodcock Demolishers Association. :p

[John Dunkle]

Oh - thank gawd it's my eyes that are going... :)

HA!!! HEH!!!

And seriously - I need to figure out distances from this thread (http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=353).... But - you want to maybe go West for a week this fall? I think it's only a 12 hour drive for you and me..?? And we'll take my Jeep and one of my dogs - and some Parkers?

John

[Dean Romig]

"The W. D. A." was written by John Alden Knight and appeared in his book WOODCOCK published in 1944. It begins; "There is an affliction that lays its heavy hand from time to time on those who indulge in the outdoor sports. A by-product of nervous tension, it sometimes has the capacity to reduce its victim to an axaggerated condition of inarticulation, wobbly knees and all-around jitters. Although the symptoms are generally the same, to a greater or less degree, this unfortunate malady manifests itself variously, its expression varying both with the temperament of the individual and the situation in hand. Generally, it is known as buck fever, but it does not confine itself to deer hunting. Even in so mild and delightful a sport as woodcock shooting, it is apt to rear its ugly visage - often with deplorable results." ergo the W. D. A.

John - once again, thanks so much for honoring me with your kind invite to head west for some fezzant shooting this fall but I fear I must decline as all of my vacation time this year has been "spoken for". In the future I would be tickled to make such a trip with you.

I think twelve hours wouldn't get you much beyond Cleveland . . . probably not to Toledo.