Damascus Barrels-Shooting Sportsman

[Bruce Day]

The Sept-Oct 2015 issue of Shooting Sportsman magazine has an interesting article about the barrelman who is doing the Damascus work for Greener in those few shot guns that become available. The guns are made with old, raw tubes that were retained in stock. The article describes the process of barrel filing, boring, chambering and fitting, and the time consuming process of working with Damascus. Of interest is the price of these Greener guns, which are the price of a new Lamborghini, which I take is costly indeed.

We are fortunate in that Parker and other top American makers used top quality Damascus barrels, and prices for mid level ( D grade) or even high level Parkers with Damascus barrels are cheap by comparison. Some are even small bores, and small bore Damascus British game guns would be very difficult to find.

I and many friends are particularly attracted to Damascus barrel Parkers for their attractiveness, and we use them for shooting targets and game without hesitation.

So here are a few photos of Damascus guns. You will see the common 2 and 3 Croille, and the less common Bernard, Chain and Stars and Bars.

[Dean Romig]

For raw pure class nothing even comes close to composite barrels on a fine shotgun.
They lend a 'personality' to a gun that everything else can only complement.

[Mills Morrison]

Yes, I was going to post about that article but Bruce beat me to it. One of the more interesting articles I have read lately.

[Brad Bachelder]

Bruce
I agree, great article with the exception of the Brown finish color. I find it interesting that the barrels are proofed the same way they proof fluid steel barrels.

[Bruce Day]

Bruce
......... I find it interesting that the barrels are proofed the same way they proof fluid steel barrels.


Which was the same way Parker did their proof testing. The last known Damascus barreled Parker was made in 1927 and was proofed using procedures that became the SAAMI standard.

Damascus barreled Parkers and other high end guns are real treasures in my opinion. And real bargains with the price of a new Greener at over $200,000, that looks wonderful but not that much more wonderfuller, if any, than a nice high grade Damascus Parker.

Notice that the Greener barrels are fairly open twist, not the more complex and costly extra fine Damascus or Bernard used by Parker.

I'm going to go hug my Damascus Parkers and Lefever.

[Eric Estes]

Speaking of Greener, I recently read his book "The Gun and It's Development". In my volume it was about page 239 where he spoke at length about the pattern welded barrel types. He made reference to strength/bursting trials the Birmingham proof house conducted of 39 different varieties. English 3 stripe laminated came in first. Some of the fancier patterns were further down the list in this trial. For example he characterized Belgian 6 stripe as "overtwisted" and weakened.

Although I did not know what to make of it all it was very interesting reading and it was clear to me at least that Mr. Greener seemed partial to English barrels and less fancy patterns. There are a couple places in the book where he seems to turn his nose up at some of the fancier patterns Belgium producers would make. He seemed to think it was more about marketing and glitz than functionality. At least that was my take away.

Not that this has any bearing on what the Greener company might be doing today, but I found his assertion that some fancier grade Damascus from Liege and elsewhere might be weaker than other simpler patterns very surprising.

IMO they are all beautiful and I will pick any of them over fluid steel every time.

[Paul Ehlers]

I found it to be a very interesting article all around. Damascus barreled guns have become my main focus in collecting over the last few years. I totally agree with Bruce's comments about what nice grades of Damascus Parker used throughout all their grades of guns.

Bruce: Thank you for posting the pictures you post of these Damascus beauties !!!

[Eldon Goddard]

Bruce can you tell me more about the parker with the American flag bunting pattern? Have you ever seen a Parker with chain Damascus? Pattern Welded barrels are true examples of art and craftsmanship.

[Bruce Day]

Early hammer guns particularly lifter action models often had usual Damascus barrels. Stars and bars, American flag bunting , etc.

I have never seen nor have I ever heard reports of chain Damascus on a Parker.

[calvin humburg]

Agreed!

[Mills Morrison]

Jim Dispagno had this EH for sale recently
http://parkerguns.org/forums/album.php?albumid=582&pictureid=6719

[Dean Romig]

Mills, is there a better picture available of that barrel pattern?

[Mills Morrison]

Check Jim's album

[Rich Anderson]

I have a Stephan Grant hammer gun that was nitro proofed in London in 2000. Who says Damascus isn't strong? As part of the Grouse battery is a Charles Boswell 20ga with Damascus barrels. At a tad over 5lbs it's an easy all day gun.

[allen newell]

Here are some pics I took last year while visiting Purdeys in London. Pics are of their first new 'Damascus" sxs produced in many years. They let me take pictures of it but since it was 'sold' I could not handle it. What Damascus pattern is this? And some of my friends tell me this is not a real Damascus barrel set. Anyone know for sure?

[Bruce Day]

Allen I think the most precise terminology is that these barrels are not Damascus but are a variety of London Twist Damascus is a croille pattern resulting from multiple stacked ribbons which are twisted then hammer forged together to make a broad band which is then twisted around a mandrel. Twist is alternating stacks of short segments of iron and steel which are twisted about a mandrel.

So twist is not Damascus but both are composite forms , both are strong and both are attractive

The Purdey Twist has that added swirl. Very nice.

Anyway that's my thoughts We have others here who know much about composite barrels and I look for their comments.

[allen newell]

Thanks Bruce. Twist steel it is. Pretty pattern though. The pictures posted do not do justice to how beautiful this double was/is. It really was spectacular. A few more pics. last pic is Purdeys storefront.

[Mike Franzen]

Alan did you know the price of the gun? I have seen pics of their new Damascus but never a mention of price. Maybe if you have to ask you can't afford it.

[allen newell]

Mike, I seem to recall that it was well over 100K US$

[Rich Anderson]

I believe Shooting Sportsman had a piece about it and it was over $200K.

[Mike Franzen]

I think it's awesome there is a market and a passion for guns like these

[Rich Anderson]

It would be even more awesome if I HAD THE $200K for the Purdy:rotf: My CHE Damascus 20 will just have to do:whistle:

[Bob Brown]

$200K for a damascus shotgun! Beautiful, but thinking of all the tubes made in Belgium and England with artistic patterns, right down to words imbedded in the design, makes me wonder if there were any artists or craftsmen in history whose work was more undervalued than theirs?

[allen newell]

I think around $265K

[Mills Morrison]

If I ever win the lotto, a matched pair of Purdeys in 20 and 28 gauge are on the wishlist, below several thousand acres of land, LC Smith 8 gauge and a few other things. I think I will just get fluid steel and pay less.

A friend of ours bought such a matched pair when he cashed out of his business and they are worth whatever he paid.

[Paul Harm]

Don't quote me, but there is a company I believe in Sweden that makes what they call damnasteel or some such name that is a Damascus billet that is drilled to form the barrel. This means a lot of wasted material, hence a very big price tag. I believe they use huge presses and thin layers of steel so there's only one or two welds. This cuts way down on time, but now they have just a thick billet of Damascus. This is why it's drilled. It was a couple of years back I read about them on the internet.

[Mills Morrison]

Greener is using leftover Damascus tubes from the old days. I wonder if someone will try to manufacture new Damascus tubes when the old supply runs out?

[Dean Romig]

It may prove too costly to tool up and then endure countless hours of trial & error for just the right tubes, only to sell only a couple of hundred barrel sets per year.





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[calvin humburg]

The Big word if. If I had 200,000 for a gun I would buy certain parker with a snake on it and a drop dead cool lefever and some more parkers heck with the limies, :) ch

[Mills Morrison]

I would spend about $50 K on a Parker GH 28 gauge, Model 21 Duck, Fox C Grade and use the rest for a farm in Maine

[Dean Romig]

Farms in Maine aren't quite the deal they used to be.
About ten years ago I had the opportunity to buy a 150 acre place in Maine only fifteen miles from my place on the lake here (I'm sitting on my dock as I write this) in Maine. 60 acres was hayfield and the rest was wooded that hadn't been cut in eighty years. It had a pond of about two acres and two trout streams.
The house was an oversize cape with all new wiring, new plumbing, a new roof, and new hardwood floors throughout. The barn was 60' x 90'.
The price was only $135K.
I wanted to make the leap but apparently I was alone in this...

That was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, never to be revisited.

[Mills Morrison]

They are still a lot less than stuff down here. What you are describing would be over a million in Georgia or SC, unless you went to a place you don't want to be.