2 7/8" SHELLS IN 2 5/8"

[Jerry Harlow]

I've seen all the debate about 2 3/4" shells in 2 1/2" or 2 5/8" chambers which I shoot all the time, but do you believe the same applies to the short 10? I picked up a lifter 10 on a No. 2 frame with Plain Twist but it has 2 5/8" chambers. All of my shells are 2 7/8" with about 7700 p.s.i. according to the chart. Shooting 1.5 ounces which I like. I know I could roll crimp but I've never had success with that and don't know of a 1/4" spacer for the 10 short kit.

Opinions? Thanks.

[Rick Losey]

I've seen all the debate about 2 3/4" shells in 2 1/2" or 2 5/8" chambers which I shoot all the time, but do you believe the same applies to the short 10? I picked up a lifter 10 on a No. 2 frame with Plain Twist but it has 2 5/8" chambers. All of my shells are 2 7/8" with about 7700 p.s.i. according to the chart. Shooting 1.5 ounces which I like. I know I could roll crimp but I've never had success with that and don't know of a 1/4" spacer for the 10 short kit.

Opinions? Thanks.


I'll get a picture for you- I put a 1/4 riser under my MEC 10's short kit, just a scrap of maple plywood I had around- just traced the shell holder and cut it out on the band saw- works fine

but lately I have been using the Ballistic Products roll crimper- i like the results,

[Jerry Harlow]

p.s I might add the bores are larger than .791 where the choke starts so the bores are oversized from the usual 10 gauge measurements of my other 10s. They are big ahead of the chambers also. I'll need to get my pin gauges out since the Skeets gauge will go no higher. They have .030 choke in both but the thinnest spots are .050 on the right and .045 on the left and almost all over .050. Since this is not in the book I wonder if this started life as a 12?

[wayne goerres]

Jerry. Is your gun chambered for the brass shells ( abrupt shoulder ) or the paper hull. One of our members tried using 2 7/8" hulls in a gun chambered for 2 5/8" for the brass hulls and it kicked real bad. Just my opinion but an 1 1/2oz of shot through a 2 5/8" chamber may be a little much. Paul Harm may be able to tell you more about it. He gave me the loads for mine.

[Jerry Harlow]

Wayne,

Appears to be a standard chamber. No abrupt end to chamber.

[wayne goerres]

Jerry I pretty much stick with using 2 5/5" shells in a 2 5/8" chamber. If it was 1/8" difference I might try it But 1/4" I don't think so. I may have to try the wood spacer trick. It would be faster than roll crimping.

[Mark Ouellette]

The thin plastic hulls of today do little to restrict the shot column moving through the forcing cone. Sherman Bell disproved this myth of high pressure being generated.

The above stated, a short, sharp angled forcing cone can cause higher recoil! Ouch!

If you can, shorten your hulls or roll crimp them. Either will produce a shorter overall length.

Mark

[Austin J Hawthorne Jr.]

I shoot 2 7/8 in shells through my 2 5/8 inch 10 gauge with the step at the chambers end. I only use this gun for sporting clays and an occasional round of trap so I keep pressure and velocity low. I have not found any noticeable indication of excessive pressure or recoil when shooting 1 1/4 oz. at 1100 to 1150 fps. I have also found that I get a nice gas seal at the chambers end when using slower burning powders like PB or Green Dot in the 10 Ga. I also roll crimp the 2 7/8 inch shells, and after about 2-3 reloads I trim them to 2 5/8 inches and put them aside until I am able to find my preferred 10 gauge powder ( Red Dot or 700 X ). I load these a little hotter since they do not protrude past the step at the chambers end.

[Paul Harm]

JA the short kit works on any Mec jr. I load 2 5/8 for all my 10ga guns even though some are for 2 7/8 - don't like sorting them. Also it takes less filler wads in the plastic wad. But then I'm only loading 1 1/16oz [ for target shooting ]. Just the one spacer works for me. As said, you can make a spacer [ any thickness you want ] out of metal or wood and save the money. Good luck. Paul

[Jerry Harlow]

I cut some Federals down from 3.5" to 2 5/8." Then I loaded 1.25 ounces in them.

I had purchased two roll crimpers before, one metal and one plastic. Stored them in the same bag. My first attempt at roll crimping on the drill press was such a disaster I gave up. So I tried again and screwed the hulls up.

Well I guess so, as I was using the 12 gauge roll crimper on the 10 hull. Left a pile of shavings. Neither was marked. Got the metal 10 roll crimper out and did fine. Now if the sun will get enough snow off the ground to play with them it will be great, but more on the way tomorrow.

I looked at my Steelmaster MEC and I may have 1/4 of an inch adjustment with the short kit to regular crimp 2 5/8" hulls. Never thought of that.

Sure wish someone would make a brass 1/4" spacer in 10 so I did not have to adjust! Better yet also make a 5/8" and 7/8" brass spacer so I could leave the MEC at 3 1/2" and just use the spacer at the stations, like they make for 12 and 20.

[Paul Harm]

The shape of a spacer would be what goes under the shell guide on the drop and crimp stations. If you lift the main spring up you can pull the guide off, trace around it for your shape. You'll have to make it a bit smaller to fit under the curled lip, that that's about it. You can make it any thickness you want. Or order the short kit and use it for a pattern to make another so you get the height you want. It's not hard to do. I load 2 5/8 on my Mec jr all the time with only one 1/4" spacer. I had trouble sometimes with a shell sticking in the final crimp station and it would then pull up out of the guide. With a pliers I bent the lip on the outside edge of the guide straight , or 90 degrees to the plate itself. There's a 1/4 X 20 threaded hole in the back of the main plate of the press itelf - I drilled a clearance hole and then screwed down the shell guide through the 1/4' spacer so the guide would stay down in place. If this thread got moved to the reloading forum you may get a lot more replies.

[Jerry Harlow]

Thanks Paul. But my original hope was to just use 2 7/8" shells I load in the 2 5/8" gun. Just looking for those who did.

[Jerry Harlow]

I'll get a picture for you- I put a 1/4 riser under my MEC 10's short kit, just a scrap of maple plywood I had around- just traced the shell holder and cut it out on the band saw- works fine

but lately I have been using the Ballistic Products roll crimper- i like the results,

Rick,

Thanks for the photo of your riser. I finally made a riser for my short kit out of 1/4" plywood and that worked great.

Now the problem with the loader. I wanted to use 6 point crimps so I cut down some Federals to 2 5/8" and cut petals off of the SP10 wad, and put the 1 1/4 oz. lead load using 32 grains of SR7625 which called for a 6 point crimps.

Trouble is, even though it looks to have plenty of room in there my MEC crushes the side walls on every load I have made. If I back it off enough to avoid the destruction, it won't crimp. I'm guessing it is just too much stuff in there. I can roll crimp, but then I only can get one load out of each hull and that's too expensive.

2nd question: Any problem shooting shells with slight dimple in the wall? I can't see how that would hurt and it should straighten them back out!

Thoughts.:cuss:

[William Davis]

My new to me old Mec 600-10 with a new from Mec short kit has small "feet" screwed to the plates bottom. Should be no problem to replace the feet with machine screws and stacked washers & make it any height you want.

Having said that rolling is easy. Been fold crimping regular loads rolling spreaders to tell them apart in my bag.

Willian

[Jerry Harlow]

When I try to use my hulls that were roll crimped on the MEC, the wad guide cannot open the mouth up enough and then the wad goes in only after compressing the piston; thus I end up with cocked wads (can see it on the side of the hull) and I know what will happen: bloopers. I found out I can trim a little more off the end to get rid of the roll and still roll crimp them a second time. Anyone have the secret to getting the wad in on a previously rolled hull?

Last week when patterning the gun, my first shot was a blooper where the roll crimp did not hold the shot tight enough I believe. Thus I wanted to 6 point crimp them. If it was a 1 1/8 oz. load I'm sure I would not crush the hulls, but these are turkey loads and I don't want a blooper there and want 1 1/4 oz. Just too much in a shorter hull.

I guess since I will shoot so few of them I'll roll crimp. Already have eight ready. Should be more than enough. Well, should be eight turkeys but you know how that goes.

[Rick Losey]

i use one of Ballistic product's tools for reforming the case mouth

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Spin-Doctor-for-large-bore-10ga-to-20ga/productinfo/SPINDOC/

[Jerry Harlow]

Rick,

Thanks again. That's just what I need not only for my roll-crimped 10s but for those that I have 6-point crimped. They are hard to put the wad in as well.

[William Davis]

I was not satisfied with BP's case mouth conditioning tools. Seemed to me friction and heat re formed the plastic Aluminum being slick needed pressure to increase friction. Plus wide mouth short case 10s point of the tool hit the primer pocket. Being tapered it tends to open the mouth too wide while leaving lower out of round. Does work well on smaller guages though.

Anyhow chucked up a piece of hard maple in the wood lathe turned shank to tight fit inside a 10 hull. Short tapered the end. It works real good I get perfect round mouths smooth inside using fired roll crimped cases Which makes for easy wad insertion loading. I should add I keep rolled and folded cases separate. Most of my rolled are cut down folded when the folds start to crack.

Not finished yet, you can't take wood out of the chuck and put it back in without runout. Since I have a lathe not a problem, turn a new one every session only takes a minute. Next step is make one up with a metal rod so it can be chucked in the drill press, and run true repeated. Will post a picture if new one works well.

William

[Jerry Harlow]

William,

You could make a few or many and sell them. I'd sure like to buy one from you at the Southern that had the metal rod for a drill press!

[William Davis]

Jerry

It's a prototype so far, am going to make one up with metal rod shaft this weekend, see how it works in the drill press. If you want to try one send me a PM with your contact details address etc.

William

[Carvel Whaley]

William, I made one in my lathe. Started with a piece of wood, drilled and taped the end for a 1/4 x 20 bolt with the head cut off, turned it around in the lathe and turned it to the correct taper and use it in the lathe or drill press. It remains tight since the turning is in the direction which keeps it that way. Carvel

[William Davis]

Carvel,

That's the trick for sure. Spin it by the bolt when shaping. Going to turn up a couple today. I have a supply of doubled threaded bolts, lag screw one end machine screw other.

William

[scott kittredge]

i use one of Ballistic product's tools for reforming the case mouth

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Spin-Doctor-for-large-bore-10ga-to-20ga/productinfo/SPINDOC/

I found when doing this with a tool i made , If you deprime the hull 1st, the former goes in much better. I found there was no room for the trapped air to go and hard to push the former in.
scott

[William Davis]

That's a very good tip

Will give it a try

William

[charlie cleveland]

yes a good tip indeed...charlie

[Jerry Harlow]

Thanks to all for the advice and especially William for the tool he sent me. I was able to recover all of my fired rolled-hulls, especially important was William's tip to leave it in the hull and let it cool so it does not retain the memory of the crimp, whether previously a star or roll crimp.

One and a quarter ounces was too much for my Federal hulls with 32 grains of 7625. So I had no choice but to roll crimp.

My 1878 short-short 10 lifter likes the bigger shot (4s) much better than 6s. It puts the same amount of nickel 4s in the turkey head as it does with 6s, which is strange I thought. Maybe it is the nickel-plated shot. It is all contained within the SP10 shot cup so I don't worry about the nickel.

Well, wound up for turkey season which begins tomorrow at daybreak and off every morning for the next four weeks. I'll be more worn out than the turkeys that run from my calls and go the other way. But there is no hunting like it (well maybe dove, and goose, and deer, and...).

[charlie cleveland]

good hunting jerry...charlie

[Paul Harm]

JA-bet you don't have enough room for a good crimp. I had trouble with my 2 5/8 shells. With what looks like the shot too far below the top of the shell I got good crimps. I have a couple of hundred loaded up right now without any empties to try on so I can't say for sure how for down you have to be - but it's more than one would think.

[Jerry Harlow]

Paul,

You are right. If it crushes the hull, there was not enough room and too much shot. One and 1/8 oz. would do just fine. But after knocking down a big gobbler this morning with the short-short ten only to have him get away, the experiment is over. I won't sleep for a couple of days over it. I'm going back to the cannons.

[charlie cleveland]

sorry to hear of the big gobblers get away...thats why i stick to the big cannons myself...charlie

[Mills Morrison]

Good luck on the turkeys Jerry. They have gotten impossible down here for even the pros.

[Jerry Harlow]

Saturday was not a good day as I rolled a big gobbler about to leave. Hens at ten yards alerted him to my presence and were moving away rapidly. After falling over like he was done, he got up and flew by me. All I had was 6s as I had rolled him with the 4s, which I thought would kill him. I did not trust the 10 gauge 1.25 ounces past thirty yards, but I did not guess the distance correctly. He is dead somewhere in the woods. (Some days you should not get out of bed. That night on the way back from a car show I hit a deer.)

Next morning I listened to one for two hours, went to him and he came like he was ready to die, but I did not shoot at forty yards because of the day before, even though I had a modern super duper magnum. He went by, I called him back, and he was coming right to me, went in the creek bed and as I waited to pop his head as he came up, never saw him again until I saw him going the other way. Killing them in open oak woods is very hard; they seem to spot you no matter what. Not a sound Monday and went back after the horny bird today and wasted two hours. Went somewhere else and a bird was gobbling. Got in the woods as it began pouring down. All I did was call him to about 100 yards and as the rain got harder he got eventually quiet. Back after him tomorrow. I should have had three birds in four days, but they are now winning 4 to 0. I think they call games at 10 to 0 now.:cuss: The umpire (wife) wishes I would give up.

Good hunting to y'all.

[charlie cleveland]

i m going in the morning too... hate to here about the lost turkey i have done the same thing in the past...good luck tommorrow.....charli

[Mills Morrison]

Hope your luck improves Jerry. I have heard them gobble a little bit but no more. I haven't hit any deer, though