Pattern variations from recent restorations

[Brad Bachelder]

The following pictures are some of the more unique patterns from the last group.

The first two pictures are a Parker lifter 4 Oxford.
Picture 3 is a Baltimore Arms Twist.
Picture 4 and 5 are a Syracuse Washington patten.

[Brad Bachelder]

Pictures six, seven, and eight are German 10/12 gauge sets, 4 iron Rossen.
Picture nine is a Belgian Guild Gun, appears to be Bernard.
Picture ten is a Parker GH 20 gauge, 4 iron Oxford.

[Dave Suponski]

Brad,Very very nice. You have achieved a very nice contrast.

[Brad Bachelder]

We have noticed that several G grade damascus barrels have had fluid steel bottom ribs behind the forend lug. In most cases G grade damascus barrels exhibit fine damascus with damascus ribs top and bottom. One recently restored set had coarser damascus on the tubes, damascus top rib, and fluid steel bottom ribs. The barrel markings were identical to the other G grade damascus barrels we have charted.

Here is an odd one. A Lefever Arms Co Nitro Special 12 gauge. The right tube is fluid steel and the left tube is damascus! These barrels were originally both blued. All of the markings are correct with one exception, the damascus tube is stamped IHR.


Just a really stellar chain pattern on an Ithaca grade 2 Lewis gun.

[Harry Collins]

Brad,

Those are good dark Damascus colors and look like the sets I have that are still in "little used" condition. Great Job!

Harry

[Dave Suponski]

I agree with Harry. Thats the kind of contrast I like to see.Stunning.

[Tim Sheldon]

I can gaze at those eye candycanes all day long! Very nice.

Tim

[Drew Hause]

WOW-beautiful work!
The 'IHR' on the Lefever Nitro barrels is probably Heuse-Riga Fils
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20h/a%20heuse%20riga%20gb.htm
'HRF' has been found on Ithaca Flues, c. 1910 L.C. Smith hammer guns, and Sears/A.J. Aubrey.
The (Ithaca) Lefever Nitro Special was not introduced until 1921- did someone on a hungover Monday morning grab the wrong tube?!? :eek: Lou Smith would not have been pleased!

Jack O'Connor Outdoor Life 1942
A good many people resent being told that their much loved old guns were no longer safe. Just for the fun of it, Lou Smith (President of Ithaca Gun Co.) proofed (using 17,500 psi Proof Loads in 1942) a dozen or so damascus and twist beauties which were lying around the plant........Here's the dope: Most of the old timers busted loose with the first proof shell. The rest did with the second. Guns tried were cheap, medium priced and expensive: but all of them went. So if anyone wants to go ahead using modern smokeless stuff in a gun built for black powder, he can; but he can include me out.
Reviewing the findings Lou writes: "These birds who persist in using smokeless powder in twist and damascus barrels remind me of the guy who made a living by sticking his head in the lion's mouth at the circus. He got away with it for a long time; then one day he didn't!"

[Brad Bachelder]

This nitro was made prior to 1933, by the address marking.As the name implies the "Nitro Special" was designed to handle all type of modern ammunition and was nitro proofed. The Damascus tube is marked full and measures at .685, that is .044 constriction. Mabey Lou Smith should have proofed this one. Or perhaps Lou was part of the Great Damascus Conspiracy.

Brad

[Dean Romig]

Perhaps Lou was part of the Great Damascus Conspiracy.Brad

My money's on that theory... but include O'connor, Askins and anyone else who espoused that faulted logic.

[Harry Collins]

Funny! Sherman Bell did the same test with a closet full of wall hangers and modern proof loads. Everyone and every gun survived.

Harry

[Ed Blake]

Brad, do you use logwood? Very nice job on those barrels. I've got two sets going now myself.

[Brad Bachelder]

Yes Ed, we do use logwood and chloride in our conversion steps..

[Ed Blake]

I've not heard of chloride being used. What is the application?

[Brad Bachelder]

Ed, the process we use is quite involved. It is based on the original formulas, but is quite a bit more involved and just not suitable for home application. If you follow Gady's or Flannigans tutorials you can achive good black & white colors. with time and patience you can get satisfactory results. Be careful though it is very, very addictive. Surface preperation is about 70 % of the job.

Brad

[Clint Meier]

Hello,
I am a new member, who doesn't own a Parker yet, but gets to handle quite a few of them, along with some other very fine guns. I ran across an Ithaca Grade 3 with mismatched Damascus patterns in the barrels, and thought it worthy of a pic and note to you guys. It does not appear to me to have been restored, but seems to be in excellent original condition. How common was mismatching tubes like this during manufacturing? Could it have been done to replace a damaged tube at some date after it's manufacture? Any light you shed on this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you....Clint.

[Dean Romig]

Clint, we have seen that only a few times. It's a pretty rare occurance and likely to be original.
Drew Haus will probably have information on that anomaly.

[Drew Hause]

Welcome Clint, and if you're the fella in Lee's Summit word is you do nice work!

You no doubt saw Brad's mismatched Nitro Special on p.1. At least both your barrels are Chain, but the right is a mess. From Nov. 30, 1895 Sporting Life

http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1895/VOL_26_NO_10/SL2610011.pdf
"The Gun Making Industry How Shot Guns Are Made and the Process Through Which They Pass Fully Explained"

The beginning of the manufacture of a gun is the barrels, and it is generally known that no barrels are made in this country except the rolled steel, which is used on the Winchester gun. All gun barrels are now imported, although an attempt was made a few years ago to produce them in this country, but with only partial success. England, Germany and Belgium supply most of the barrels, the latter country doubtless producing the larger quantity. All gun barrels, whether imported direct from the makers in Belgium, or through an importer in this country to the gun manufacturer, are received in rough tubes, which very much resemble a couple of gas pipes, but being somewhat larger at one end than at the other. These barrels or "tubes" as they are called, are merely tied together in pairs, with small wire and 40 to 50 pairs are packed in a box.

There are many kinds of barrels and each have several grades, the cheapest being the twist, of which there are a number of classes. Laminated steel is a better quality of barrel, while the Damascus barrel, which is the most popular, has the greatest number of grades of all. Many persons suppose that a barrel is a strong one if it is Damascus, when, in fact, a first-class twist barrel is superior in strength to many of the cheaper grades of Damascus.

When the tubes arrive from Belgium they clearly show the figure of the twist or the peculiar curl of the Damascus and the different qualities can thus be distinguished from the construction of the material shown, even in their rough state. These tubes are paired, trued up or straightened out if crooked and soldered together: the lugs on the bottom/ and the extension on the top being brazed in, but the top rib and under rib are hard soldered. The barrels are then very rough and are placed on machines, which cut down the lugs to nearly the required shape and size.


Actually, until the tubes are finished and colored, it can be difficult to identify the pattern. SO, a pair of tubes were likely wired together in Belgium, shipped to Ithaca, then joined, fit, finished and colored before the mis-match was apparent.
I'm in awe of the barrels guys at Parker as to their ability to match the D4 and D6 'Turkish' barrels.

[Chuck Bishop]

I can vouch for Clint doing nice checkering and stock work. He recut the checkering and added a wood extension to my PH a few years ago and did it at a very reasonable price. Nice to have you aboard Clint:bigbye:

[Brad Bachelder]

Hello Clint, Nice set of barrels, I feel that Ithica had some of the best chain patterns. Due to the apperance of the top rib, I believe that these barrels were refinished, but a long time ago. The pattern orientaion is correct, however the two tubes appear different. This is due to the refinishers etching process. As the ribands are wound and hammer welded the exerted hammer force varies between barrels. The tube that shows the white weld lines tells me that the metal is more dense than the welds on the other tube. Increased density from additional force is much harder to properly etch than less dense metal. Additional finishing steps need to be taken to even out the appearance, but It can be done. I doubt that they left the factory looking like that. Iam sure that the old timers had to deal with these problems on a daily basis, but they had there little tricks. The ability to take finish is greatly compounded by the hardness of the tubes. Parker fine twist barrels are among the hardest to refinish due to the hardness of the ribands. Potentially your barrels could look awsome, done correctly.

Brad

[Clint Meier]

Gentlemen, thank you all so much for your warm welcome to the forums, and the information you have provided. You guys are the best! I have been reading here off and on for a couple of years now learning a lot in the process, and your collective wealth of information and willingness to share it is truely outstanding! Brad, thanks for your explanation. I guess these tubes look far different than they really are. Yes Drew, I live in Lee's Summit, thank you, sir! Good to hear from you as well, Chuck!