3" GHE

[jeffery c]

I have bought a 1910 made GHE 12 gauge number 2 frame gun. The chambers measure 3" long exactly. The barrel wall thickness 3" from the breech is .096"-.097". The chambers/forcing cones show slight rust staining their entire length. I have requested a research letter from PGCA.

I'm wondering what people's thoughts are about the originality of this chamber length?

What are your thoughts as to whether the research letter will be able to verify the 3" chambers or not?

[Dean Romig]

A 2 frame 12 gauge Parker is generally a pretty stout gun but it would surprise me to learn the 3” chambers are original, especially with those wall thicknesses. I’m not saying they’re unsafe but they are certainly minimal for what kind of 3” ammo some folks might use.





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[jeffery c]

Thanks for the reply! I too kind of doubt it's original 3" chambers. I have a return privilege yet I'm going to see if the seller will let me hold onto it until I get my research letter. I did search this forum and found references to chamber end wall thickness at the forcing cone juncture listed in the range of .080"-.100" as typical for vintage doubles.

Does anyone here have a letter confirmed factory 3" Parker that they could measure the wall thickness of the chamber end/forcing cone juncture?

[Researcher]

From the get go, Parker Bros. would chamber a gun for whatever length cartridge the customer ordered. In theory if the customer requested a gun be chambered for 3-inch shells, the chamber would in fact be 2 7/8 inch.

Three-inch and even 3 1/4 inch 12-gauge shells were available from our North American ammunition manufacturers virtually from the beginning of factory loaded shot shells. They didn't offer heavier loads than one could get in the 2 3/4 inch shell, the advantage which many gun cranks believed in was more/better wadding. The heaviest 12-gauge loads offered back in the day were 3 1/2 drams of bulk smokeless powder or 28-grains of dense smokeless powder such as Infallible or Ballistite pushing 1 1/4 ounce of shot. Here is such a load in 3-inch Winchester LEADER cases marked as Fred Gilbert's Live Bird load by Von Lengerke & Antoine --

Fred Gilbert Winchester Leaders.jpg

And in a 2 7/8 inch Western Cartridge Co. RECORD case --

RECORD 12-gauge 2 7-8 inch #7 chilled.jpg

In a Remington ARROW 2 3/4 inch case with 28 grains of Ballistite --

ARROW 12-gauge 28-grains Ballistite, Remington Arms Co., Inc..jpg

These loads are said to be a bit higher pressure than today's SAAMI specs.

The 12-gauge 3-inch progressive burning powder load with 1 3/8 ounce of shot was introduced in the 1924/5 time frame by Western Cartridge Co. put up in their RECORD case.

12-gauge RECORD 3-inch Super-X two piece.jpg

The 12-gauge 3-inch Magnum with 1 5/8 ounce of shot was introduced in 1935 along with Winchester's Model 12 Heavy Duck --

RECORD Super-X 12-gauge 3-inch Magnum.jpg

LEADER SUPER-SPEED 12-gauge 3-inch 1 5-8 ounce #5.jpg

[Dean Romig]

Thanks Dave.

I would think if the subject gun was ordered with 3” chambers intended for shells somewhat longer than 3” the factory records and the research letter would address the order.





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[Drew Hause]

Jeffery: I believe you have misinterpreted the wall thickness threads.
Lot of information here
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/...=379803&page=3

An end-of-the-chamber wall thickness of .080" would NOT be factory original in a 2 Frame, nor even in a light weight British game gun 12b.

[jeffery c]

Drew, thanks, your chart is the one I was thinking of, showing a range (in 12 gauge) from .086" for a Parker VH to .118" for a LC Smith. The only other Parker I have measured at .093" It's a 12 gauge 2 5/8" chambers, 28", 1 1/2 frame, 1929 VH, with barrels stamped "3 - 6". The VH is original finish, original bores, I think. I was wondering what your thoughts of this GHE measuring at .096" are. Unlikely to be original or hard to say? I mailed in my request for a research letter today, by the way.

[Drew Hause]

How long are the forcing cones Jeffery? They were originally likely 1/2" to 5/8".
If longer, when they were lengthening the chamber may have been lengthened another 3/8"; from 2 5/8".
I have a L.C. Smith with long cones and non-original 3 1/4" chambers still with end-of-the-chamber WT of .112" and .118".
I don't believe a 2 frame Parker would have end-of-the-chamber WT of .096". But assuming the barrels are Parker Special Steel, I would be comfortable using 1 1/8 oz. at 1200 fps target loads in the gun.

[jeffery c]

The forcing cones look short, Drew, although I haven't measured them yet, I will tonight. I'll also take a measurement at 2 5/8" from the breech to get a hypothetical wall thickness with standard chambers.

Does anyone have a end of chamber wall thickness measurement for a number 2 Parker for comparison? Best of all would be if someone happened to have measurement on a 3" chamber gun that letters.

[Josey Flynn]

Jeffrey, I have a DH 12 circa 1902 that has 30" Damascus barrels and factory 3" chambers. The research letter states that it was ordered with 3" chambers, and that the chambers are listed as 2 7/8".