Hemingway's Guns- great read indeed

[Grantham Forester]

I hope no body objects to me "re-starting" a previous fine thread about Ernest Hemingway. I agree with the member who posted the comment about the astute readership here, a wealth of information. I can't comment on the combat and PTSD postings, I served 6 years in the USN Reserves, as a machinist's mate, and was discharged as an E-4. I do not know if PTSD and the inherent suicidal traits in the Hemingway family are related or not.

I did read the chapter about the Browning Superposed with interest, as my hunting partner has a similar one, with the two triggers, but his is a 20 gauge. But as a waterfowler who leaves the 3 shot plug in his Model 12 year-around, I do wonder about this, found on page 27. "In 1913, after public outcry in the US about declining wildlife numbers----- the Federal government passed the Weeks-McLean Act-- aka-- the Federal Migratory Bird law. Among many other things, this limited shotguns to holding and firing no more than 3 cartridges.--"

I am under the impression that this Law resulted in the ban against the 8 gauge, and possibly also the punt guns used by the market hunters that James Michener wrote about in his novel "Chesapeake"! Wasn't it 1935 when FDR signed into law the three-shot limited on repeating shotguns when used for water fowling?--any comments or clarifications would be welcome!

[Steve McCarty]

Originally Posted by Grantham Forester

I hope no body objects to me "re-starting" a previous fine thread about Ernest Hemingway. I agree with the member who posted the comment about the astute readership here, a wealth of information. I can't comment on the combat and PTSD postings, I served 6 years in the USN Reserves, as a machinist's mate, and was discharged as an E-4. I do not know if PTSD and the inherent suicidal traits in the Hemingway family are related or not.

I did read the chapter about the Browning Superposed with interest, as my hunting partner has a similar one, with the two triggers, but his is a 20 gauge. But as a waterfowler who leaves the 3 shot plug in his Model 12 year-around, I do wonder about this, found on page 27. "In 1913, after public outcry in the US about declining wildlife numbers----- the Federal government passed the Weeks-McLean Act-- aka-- the Federal Migratory Bird law. Among many other things, this limited shotguns to holding and firing no more than 3 cartridges.--"

I am under the impression that this Law resulted in the ban against the 8 gauge, and possibly also the punt guns used by the market hunters that James Michener wrote about in his novel "Chesapeake"! Wasn't it 1935 when FDR signed into law the three-shot limited on repeating shotguns when used for water fowling?--any comments or clarifications would be welcome!

I have a copy of the Hemingway gun book right in front of me, and I found the passage you refer to. I wonder if the prohibition of the 8 gauge is one of the "other things" alluded to in the work that you quoted above.

I can tell you that the gandarms (Trying to spell French words is like saying pig latin backwards.) take that three shot law seriously. I've been stopped several times by those guys and after showing my license they always ask to see the plug....or to show evidence there is one in there. The three shot and anti-punt gun laws seem to go hand in hand, so they probably became law at the same time.

[Bill Murphy]

A 20 gauge Superposed is a rare gun. I thought the 8 gauge prohibition was a 1918 thing. I don't know much about all that.

[Grantham Forester]

From pages 163-164 of "The Best of Nash Buckingham": In the early 1890's --trombone-action repeaters--- carrying 6 shells apiece-- quickly infiltrated the ranks of sportsmen and market hunters.--- By1912-1913, when the Weeks-McLean Bill and Lucy Act appeared, it had become obvious that wildfowl populations------ were doomed unless remedial measures were taken. Federal bag limits of 25 ducks per day and 8 geese-- with 90 day open seasons---- were clapped on. To make assurance doubly sure, from the market-shooting slant, the good old 8 bore was banished. The lighter, faster-shooting pump guns and auto-loaders---- were not only allowed to continue, but made the watchword for advertising: 'Shoot more, shoot faster and kill more'. Putting away the 8 bore probably seemed the right thing to do to disenfranchise the market gunners."

The late Nash B. wrote this for Gun Digest in 1960. If he were still with us today, I wonder what he would think of: Steel shot, choke tubes, over-bored 12 gauges with 3.5" chambers, black synthetic stocks and camo-sprayed barrels, battery powered decoys and electronic callers.

In my experience, shooting a std. 12 gauge Model 12, plugged, the third shot is mainly for finishing a cripple, once you have fired the first shot, the incoming birds flare at the sound. I would have very much liked to have seen Captain Harold Money shoot his Model 1897 on decoying ducks, as described in Nash's best known story--

[MarketHunter]

From what I recall, the 1918 law only banned guns larger than 10 gauge, the selling of migratory game, and gunning at night.

It was the 1935 laws that banned more than three shots, baiting, and live decoys.

That's memory, I didn't look it up, so I could be wrong.


DLH

[Big Friend Ten (BFT)]

I once skulled into a raft of divers including a couple Canvasbacks. My partner and I each shot the three rounds from the autoloaders and reloaded and emptied again. We could have probably done this a third time but we had a lot of dead ducks on the water. I have a nice Bull Can mounted on my wall from this skull.

I have also been picking up decoys and had geese want to land next to me.

Sometimes birds do have bird brains.

Mark

[MarketHunter]

Mark,

I've seen ducks land in the decoys as we were throwing them out during broad daylight. Sometimes they just want to decoy and nothing will stop them.

One of the wildest ones I ever saw was Kaas and I out with Nathan on Lake St. Clair. Kaas is normally a murderous shot, but everybody has a bad day and he was having a tough one. A single black duck (Yes a black!) was decoying in and he took two shots at it missing with both barrels. Bird never missed a wing beat, just kept on coming like nothing had happened. I could barely fire from pure amazement but did manage to take the shot and kill the bird. I had in my mind it was going to be a half grown young of the year duck when we picked it up. I was wrong, a big old black duck drake. Guess he'd just had enough of living.......


Destry

[Rodney Sayre]

I was just in NY City at the Beretta store and was amazed to find one of Hemingway's O/U Beretta displayed in the store. I was very pleased apparently he must have owned it while living in Key West for they said he bird hunted in Cuba with it. A must see if you are in NY City.

[Robert Delk]

I think Jim Austin owned that Beretta years ago and had it for sale at Kittery Point.

[Steve McCarty]

Originally Posted by Grantham Forester

In my experience, shooting a std. 12 gauge Model 12, plugged, the third shot is mainly for finishing a cripple, once you have fired the first shot, the incoming birds flare at the sound. I would have very much liked to have seen Captain Harold Money shoot his Model 1897 on decoying ducks, as described in Nash's best known story--

When hunting upland game, the covey rise or the flushed pheasant happens quickly and one might get off two aimed shots. The third is usually a "hope shot". Do we "finish off" a bird with that third round? I usually grab it and ring its neck, or a dog might grab it and then you ring its neck anyway.

Duck shooting can be different. Sometimes several/many come in if you are shooting from a blind with good deeks. You might cuss when you run out of shells. Usually, however; two is fine and reason for celebration.

The only time I would actually need to fill the magazine on my model 12, 97 or Auto 5 is when a mob or crazed people are assaulting my home or business. A belt fed weapon might be better.