Winchester 1897 Black Diamond Trap

[Steve McCarty]

Originally Posted by David Holes

I have shot some really good registered trap scores with a solid rib model 12. So yes, anything is possible. Dave

Thank you. My model 12, 12 doesn't have a rib, but my Model 12, 16 does. Does the rib make that much difference? The thing is the 12 gauge has cast off and when mounted my eye lines up perfectly along the barrel. I've never shot it at trap, but will.

[Dean Romig]

Parkers are all I shoot at skeet, trap and sporting clays and I do sufficiently well not to cause me to want to shoot a pump, gas job, or OU instead.

[Holeshot]

I have shot alot of single barrel trap guns , My SBT Parker is amazing. Dave

[Steve McCarty]

Originally Posted by David Holes

My first parker was a vh 12, 28 inch, imp mod and full. First time shooting skeet I broke a 24. High 8 proved tough with that choke. I walked off station 7 with 2 clouds of smoke on a windless day that left my fellow shooters amazed. What fun. I now shoot a SBT and a vh skeet gun and shoot very well indeed. Dave

It sounds to me that you are a better shot than I. I like your spirit. I'm shooting my SBT in trap and will continue to do so. Been shooting a Browning Gold Fusion with the skeet choke screwed in at skeet. It works okay, but I liked my old Rem 1100 better... I no longer own the gun. I've also shot a SKB Ithaca 385 with skeet chokes for skeet. It worked okay, but I just don't like the feel of the gun.

Fact is, I was raised a hunter and while we did shoot trap when the season started, we only did it to sharpen our eye for the feathered fowl.

Shooting clays is an entirely different breed of cat, and while I like it; hunting is best.

[Bill Zachow]

While looking at the 97s, you may get lucky and find a 1893. Predecessor to the 1897 and much scarcer. The 1893 was basically too weak in the frame to consistently handle the early smokeless powder shells. Winchester made about 20,000 before the problems became too numerous to ignore. Winchester offered to replace any 1893 with a new 1897, grade for grade. All returned 93s were destroyed making them one of the scarcest Winchester pump shotguns around. The only scarcer one would be the model 61 .22 shot. 93s and early 97s came with plain, uncheckered steelbuttplates which had a small peak.

[Ed Blake]

Didn't Nash Buckingham shoot a '93 that was exchanged for a '97?

[Steve McCarty]

Originally Posted by Bill Zachow

While looking at the 97s, you may get lucky and find a 1893. Predecessor to the 1897 and much scarcer. The 1893 was basically too weak in the frame to consistently handle the early smokeless powder shells. Winchester made about 20,000 before the problems became too numerous to ignore. Winchester offered to replace any 1893 with a new 1897, grade for grade. All returned 93s were destroyed making them one of the scarcest Winchester pump shotguns around. The only scarcer one would be the model 61 .22 shot. 93s and early 97s came with plain, uncheckered steelbuttplates which had a small peak.

Over the years I have seen a few 93s at gun shows and they garnered little interest. I'll bet people don't know the story just related. Some were damascus. I see more Marlins than Winchesters tho.

When young I attended local carnivals where you got ten shots at little zinc bottles for a dime. We shot those little 61's shooting shorts. Does anyone shoot 22 shorts today? We used to all of the time.

I enjoy my 97, but I haven't shot it much. It just looks great.

[charlie cleveland]

that hammer on the old 97 gives are some kinda carisma...i only have a good shooter in the old 97 my grandson barrowed it about 2 years ago and i aint seen it since...he must like it or throwed it in the creek .... charlie

[Steve McCarty]

Originally Posted by charlie cleveland

that hammer on the old 97 gives are some kinda carisma...i only have a good shooter in the old 97 my grandson barrowed it about 2 years ago and i aint seen it since...he must like it or throwed it in the creek .... charlie

When young lots of our guns had hammers and half cock was considered a reliable and easy to use safety. The 97 could be put on half cock and so could the early Ruger .22 revolvers and my .357 Blackhawk and yes, my ears still ring. The ubiquitous 30/30 Win and Marlin also used the half cock safety and they were about the only high powered rifles that I ever saw in Western Kansas. Some guys still used old Krags. I cannot recall, as I sit here, any rifle sporting glass, or even peep sights, but some must have.

As I peruse photos of bird hunters at the turn of the Century (19 - 20) I see lots of 97's and a few Parkers and Elsies. Other's too, of course, but the 97, in its day, was hot potatos. Hunters must have liked the extra shots and the modernity of the pumps.

[Bill Murphy]

I think that our friend, Dave Noreen, would know about Nash Buckingham's exposed hammer Winchesters. As I recall, he got a Winchester from Harold Money, but I don't know whether it was a 97 or a 93. I have my little covey of 97 Traps, but only one in extremely high condition. Kevin McCormack and I included that one in a "Competition Pigeon Guns" display at the Baltimore Antique Arms Collectors show a couple of years ago. Even though the display included some high grade Parker pigeon guns as well as other valuable pigeon guns, the old minty 97 Trap Grade drew the most questions and offers to purchase. Who knows what turns collectors on?