Ithaca Classic Doubles

[Frank P]

I am close to acquiring a long sought after 28g 471xxx ICD. With only 500 guns in existence, should I be concerned with parts availability, qualified gunsmiths, etc. Thanks in advance.

[B. Dudley]

What you want is the second generation guns, which are the 471,000 series numbers. Stay clear of the 470,000 series. There was a lot of issues with them in manufacturing. So tou are on the right track on that.

There was about 250 of each variation made. Parts availability can be iffy if actually needed. There are plenty of barrel sets out there.

[Bob Jurewicz]

Frank,
They are great guns!! Brian gave the best advice on ICDs. There are a number of gunsmiths who originally worked for ICD that now are on there own. First to come to mind is Gunther Phrommer. Brian has done great work on a number of mine.
Bob Jurewicz

[Bob Jurewicz]

By the way the bad rep on 470*** guns is not necessarily the real ICDs. It is the guns made by Beschi with part rejected by ICD.
They can be easily recognized by the XXXed out ICD labeling in the bottom of the receiver.
Bob Jurewicz

[Bob Jurewicz]

Well while I'm on a roll here is a 28 GA 30" Superlative that will make you droll.
Bob Jurewicz

[B. Dudley]

Originally Posted by Bob Jurewicz

By the way the bad rep on 470*** guns is not necessarily the real ICDs. It is the guns made by Beschi with part rejected by ICD.
They can be easily recognized by the XXXed out ICD labeling in the bottom of the receiver.
Bob Jurewicz

Yes Bob, the 470s that went out the door are likely problem free guns today. I just know that they had a lot of issues with building the guns and getting them out the door. And then of course there are the guns you mention put together after the fact with rejected parts.

[nid-28]

As a longtime ICD fan who had the opportunity to see many of these guns in the entire serial number ranges, I can say that the majority of 470 guns were engraved by Creative Arts and had more detailed work on them. As time went by, the engraving coverage lessened and the scrolls became more open. It was good engraving, but not the same quality of the earlier guns.

[Bob Jurewicz]

Bill,
I agree 100% on the engraving quality. However, I thought only the High Grades were done by Creative Arts. My grade 7 was CA engraved.
Bob Jurewicz

[Bill Murphy]

Which serial number range were the Beschi put together guns? Now Bill Davis says the 470 guns are just fine when for years we have been told they are not so fine. Further, now we are told that the 470 guns were engraved by Creative Arts which gives them more credibility. Brian says to steer clear of the 470 guns, then says they should be problem free and the "problems" with them only involved getting them out the door. When I was selling new ICDs for the company, we didn't know squat about the difference. They all looked good to us. It was later on when the parts and manufacturing problems came up. When I could have taken advantage of company discounts, I did not take advantage.

[nid-28]

Let me expand on my response I sent earlier. Creative Arts did not engrave all of the 470 production, but a fair % of it. Some of those guns came in without engraving and Adams & Adams, a father/son team did those is the. 4-E pattern mainly. Creative Arts did the high grade guns, as Bob J. Mentioned earlier. When Steve L had his business in Victor, NY, it was a converted Train station and quite charming in concept and execution. He had a caboose converted into living quarters and an engraving studio. Several engravers(1 at a time) resided there for months at a time decorating Steve’s guns. It was quite a set up. One year at Safari Club in Vegas, the guys from Creative Art were with us and Bregoli set up and engraved during the event. He mostly was engraving and selling gold money clips that he sold readily at the convention. He worked on some receivers too! The parts sets rejected by ICD ended up, as was stated before, being pieced together by Beschi and offered by Thad Scott and others. Some of these sets were offered by Galazan unfinished and required a serious gunmaker to assemble them. It was a tumultuous time as ICD scrambled to find other sources for barrels and actions. That’s an entirely different story that, maybe, someday will be told.