Question About Bismuth To Lead

[Joe Wheeler]

So, I am looking over some of the loads on the page and I am wondering as a general rule, can a person subsitute lead for bismuth and it be similar in performance as far as speeds and preasures?

I am still learing when it comes to shotgun loading and I am seeing that it looks as if a change in any one thing affects the load data. From hulls to shot type to wad type to powder etc.

I am wanting some plinking loads for my 10 gauge and saw some bismuth loads I have all the components for except the sp-10 wads and the bismuth.

[charlie cleveland]

to me it would be very close....charlie

[OH Osthaus]

no - bismuth loads differently than lead will

there are bismuth 10ga loads in Pete Lester's 10ga load spreadsheet

[Joe Wheeler]

I was just wondering if since bismuth is softter would it act like lead and have similar performance.

[J.B. Books]

Originally Posted by Joe Wheeler

I was just wondering if since bismuth is softter would it act like lead and have similar performance.

It does not have similar performance because it does not have the same density of lead. What it is known for is better performance on game than steel shot and it's friendly to old barrels.

Because bismuth is less dense it takes a greater volume of it to achieve the same weight as lead. An ounce and a quarter of bismuth has the same volume as 1 3/8+ ounce of lead. That results in more bore scrub which results in higher chamber pressure.

An old rule of thumb was you could take the same volume of bismuth and substitute it for lead and have roughly the same pressure i.e a recipe for 1 1/4 ounce of lead will hold roughly an 1 1/8 ounce of bismuth and you should be good to go. This is the only way I would directly substitute bismuth for lead in a lead reloading recipe. Another thing I have tried is to find a published recipe for a heavier load of bismuth and decrease the weight and powder.

Bismuth works great on game if it is not pushed to super high velocity (its more brittle than lead). You may want to increase the shot size for impact performance on game because bismuth is roughly 80% the density of lead.

When loaded right ducks don't know they were hit with bismuth they just drop.

Good luck, stay safe.

[Joe Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Pete Lester

It does not have similar performance because it does not have the same density of lead. What it is known for is better performance on game than steel shot and it's friendly to old barrels.

Because bismuth is less dense it takes a greater volume of it to achieve the same weight as lead. An ounce and a quarter of bismuth has the same volume as 1 3/8+ ounce of lead. That results in more bore scrub which results in higher chamber pressure.

An old rule of thumb was you could take the same volume of bismuth and substitute it for lead and have roughly the same pressure i.e a recipe for 1 1/4 ounce of lead will hold roughly an 1 1/8 ounce of bismuth and you should be good to go. This is the only way I would directly substitute bismuth for lead in a lead reloading recipe. Another thing I have tried is to find a published recipe for a heavier load of bismuth and decrease the weight and powder.

Bismuth works great on game if it is not pushed to super high velocity (its more brittle than lead). You may want to increase the shot size for impact performance on game because bismuth is roughly 80% the density of lead.

When loaded right ducks don't know they were hit with bismuth they just drop.

Good luck, stay safe.

Thank you for the great info.

[Kingston Wulff]

I load bismuth loads specifically for my Damascus 12ga. Parker shotguns. You can get bismuth from Rotometals.com. I have sourced it from other places but the Rotometals products are great quality. They describe the density of Bismuth to be nearly identical to lead so I actually load it the same way. The guns are vintage 1881, and 1889. I have the hand loading tools where you use a dipping tool for a square load. ie. same volume of black powder to shot. It works great. I shot a duck at a mountain pond that I discovered with one shot at about 40yds. When I cleaned the bird, he had been hit with at least a dozen pellets and all went clean through him. It patterned well and with great velocity. That is a non-technical term because I have not chrono-ed the loads. But it has to be safer than using RST reduced loads in the BP vintage shotguns. The RST loads are still 3X the chamber pressure as BP. I say, "Load the BP shotguns the original way they were intended to be shot and you will be surprised to learn that they shoot like a modern shotgun and you don't need 3 in. shells to get the job done. Bismuth is expensive but I don't shoot as much as I used to anyway. I shoot #4 and #5 shot bismuth for ducks and upland birds. I hope that helps you.

[Joe Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Kingston Wulff

I load bismuth loads specifically for my Damascus 12ga. Parker shotguns. You can get bismuth from Rotometals.com. I have sourced it from other places but the Rotometals products are great quality. They describe the density of Bismuth to be nearly identical to lead so I actually load it the same way. The guns are vintage 1881, and 1889. I have the hand loading tools where you use a dipping tool for a square load. ie. same volume of black powder to shot. It works great. I shot a duck at a mountain pond that I discovered with one shot at about 40yds. When I cleaned the bird, he had been hit with at least a dozen pellets and all went clean through him. It patterned well and with great velocity. That is a non-technical term because I have not chrono-ed the loads. But it has to be safer than using RST reduced loads in the BP vintage shotguns. The RST loads are still 3X the chamber pressure as BP. I say, "Load the BP shotguns the original way they were intended to be shot and you will be surprised to learn that they shoot like a modern shotgun and you don't need 3 in. shells to get the job done. Bismuth is expensive but I don't shoot as much as I used to anyway. I shoot #4 and #5 shot bismuth for ducks and upland birds. I hope that helps you.

Thank you for the info.

I am wanting to load some bp bismuth for my 1887 Winchester and some
10g Bismuth for my 1901 Winchester.

Unfortunately I do not have a Parker yet. Please don't hold it against me. Ya'll have some of the best load data on the net in these forums.

[J.B. Books]

Originally Posted by Joe Wheeler

Thank you for the info.

I am wanting to load some bp bismuth for my 1887 Winchester and some
10g Bismuth for my 1901 Winchester.

Those of us who shoot the Short Ten for any time have often had to "experiment". Some of us have been willing to try unpublished recipes and others will not stray. Another thing I and others have tried is to find a 12ga loading with similar or same components, we believe that if the 12ga loading has a safe pressure it will be even lower in a 10ga due to the larger bore size. Example; Hodgdon has a published load in 12ga using Cheddite 2 3/4 hull, Cheddite primer, 31.4 gr of Longshot, Remington RP12 wad and 1 1/4 oz of bismuth, 7700 psi, 1350 fps. Lately I have been shooting 2 7/8" Cheddite 10ga hull, Cheddite primer, 30.4 gr Longshot, SP10 wad, 1 1/4 oz bismuth. My results, normal crack, no excessive recoil, bores show a good burn and it's been swatting ducks effectively. I am comfortable shooting it in my composite barrel 10's but others may not be. Use at your own risk.

[Kingston Wulff]

Originally Posted by Joe Wheeler

Thank you for the info.

I am wanting to load some bp bismuth for my 1887 Winchester and some
10g Bismuth for my 1901 Winchester.

Unfortunately I do not have a Parker yet. Please don't hold it against me. Ya'll have some of the best load data on the net in these forums.

Not a problem. I rarely find a gun that I do not like. I understand.