Parker pattern tests as recorded in the stock book?

[Bindlestiff]

What do we know about how Parker Bros. pattern tested their barrels.

I have a letter on a 16ga gun that states they used #8 shot at a 30 inch circle at 40 yards (no mention of how many oz. of shot in shell). Another 16ga gun's letter states 7/8 oz of #8 shot at 30 yards (no mention of circle size, could this letter be wrong in that yards should be inches?).

A Parker hang tag has 30 inch circle at 40 yards printed as part of the tag with blank spaces to be filled in with the shot weight and size.



So, my questions:

1. What size shot did Parker Bros. use in their normal test process?
2. How many oz. of shot did they use in these tests, I assume the amount varied by gauge; probably more in an 8ga than in a 28ga?

If you have a hang tag, it would be interested in knowing what it says for oz. of shot and shot size used; it would be interesting to see that for several gauges.

[Drew Hause]

A 1900 Parker hang tag states that 12g 2 5/8” chambered guns were patterned at 40 yds. in a 30” circle using 2 3/4” shells with 1 1/8 oz. No. 7 chilled shot and 40 grains (3 1/4 Dram) of DuPont Bulk smokeless powder. 1920s tags still listed Bulk smokeless.

Scroll down just past 1/2 way here for other maker's hang tags:
https://docs.google.com/a/damascuskn...UOZEFU/preview

[Bill Murphy]

There is a world of difference in ranges, circle sizes, sometimes a square target rather than round, amount of shot, size of shot as well as different brands of shot with differences in number of shot per ounce. These differences show up by the day as well as by the era. The most confusion takes place when one or more of the variables are left out completely. There are some examples of stock book pages in The Parker Story. A previous thread discussed different pattern information included in various stock book pages and hang tags.

[Drew Hause]

I believe Bro. Bruce has posted this c. 1900 hang tag several times, and it has been repeated that 12g guns were patterned with 1 1/8 oz. 3 Dram Eq.
Turns out that 40 grains of DuPont Bulk Smokeless is 3 1/4 Dram Eq.



For comparison, the 1933 edition of ”Smokeless Shotgun Powders” by Wallace Coxe and E.I. du Pont de Nemours & Co. reported the LUP pressure for 1 1/4 oz. 3 Dram Eq. of DuPont bulk smokeless at 9,600 psi.

A 1963 George Herter Reloaders Handbook (courtesy of Mark Ouellette) lists 23 grains (3 1/4 Eq.) of Infallible, now Unique Dense Smokeless, with 1 1/8 oz. shot in a paper case with paper wads (card & fiber) at 8,725 psi by LUP. By modern piezoelectric transducers that would be more like 9,500 psi.


And found this
http://www.bidsquare.com/l/917/parke...nd-2-hang-tags

16g SN 98546 c. 1899 patterned with 1 oz. and 30 grains DuPont Bulk Smokeless
12g SN 71792 c. 1891 patterned with 1 1/4 oz. and 42 grains DuPont likely Black Powder

[Pa SxS]

Check out the recently new post in the FAQ's. http://parkerguns.org/pages/faq/PatternTest.html

I'm guessing but Parker may have changed over to the 30" at 40 yards around the late 1890's or early 1900's. Maybe with the introduction of the hammerless guns. I'll see if I can narrow it down more. The problem is that most of our copies of the stock book are cut off right at the middle of the patterning info. I need to page through to find some that can be read.

[Bill Murphy]

As an example, two twelve gauge guns in the 216,000 range, 210 numbers apart, one patterned with 1 1/8 ounces, one patterned with 1 1/4 ounces.

[Pa SxS]

I went through the stock books looking for the time period that different patterning specs were used. The earliest patterning was in the 1500 to 4200 S/N range. They used 45 yards and a 18 x 24" target with size 7 or 8 shot being the most common. The pellet counts are listed however it's not known what the weight of the shot was or the brand of powder used. There were also some that were 45 yards in a 24" circle and a few that were 40 yards in a 24" circle however these were the exception to the 18 x 24" specs.

Next, between 4500 and 86000 we see the 45 yards, 24" circle.

Last, starting at 8600 they switched to the now standard 30" circle at 40 yards. These specs were from 10 to 28 gauge. I've heard that for some of the small gauge guns, they may have used shorter distances but I haven't seen examples of this. This is the time frame of the introduction of the hammerless gun.

If we know the pellet count for each barrel, the weight of the shot, and the brand of shot (not all manufacturers had the same pellet count per 1 oz), you could figure out the percent of shot in the circle to figure out the choke.

Parker used Tatham shot quite a bit but did they use other manufacturers shot? Tatham #8 shot had 399 pellets per 1oz, Merchants Shot Tower had 365, and .Thos Sparks Co had 426. These differences may have been due to there being no standard for shot sizes at that time or may be due to the amount of antimony contained in the shot.

[Bill Murphy]

If we could locate one old thread on this subject, we can examine several different hang tags. We also computed the conversion equation to compare 45 yards in a 24" circle with 40 yards in a 30" circle. I have never seen an eight gauge stock book entry, but Chuck could find a few without too much trouble. I have also never seen a buckshot pattern count in a stock book entry, although some order book entries specify a buckshot pattern. #86988 is one gun that had a buckshot pattern requested. I wonder what that stock book entry looks like.

[Drew Hause]

Chuck: Is that 86000 as in c. 1896? Thank you.

[Bill Murphy]

Our resident historian doesn't seem to be interested in helping with the recent (2014) research on patterns. I provided a serial number for a gun patterned with buckshot with interest in providing research information (86988), but the request resulted in the killing of this thread for nine years.