Winchester 1897 Black Diamond Trap

[Steve McCarty]

Originally Posted by Dean Romig

When I was fifteen I used up a whole box of 20's at bats in the early evening. never touched one of them. I decided that it was a pretty wasteful endeavor and never did it again.

LOL, that's funny! Did they "hear" it coming? We need more bats.

I knew a fellow who used to hunt bob white quail with a .22 rifle, shooting solids. He did pretty well at it too. We also shot cans thrown into the air. It's easy to hit a paint can, but tough to bag a frozen juice can. If you practice you can do it tho. My friend could hit a pebble... a biggish one.

In the Army for a while, during the VN War, they trained guys to shoot BB guns at BB's tossed into the air. They were trying to develop instinctive shooting. Some guys could hit a BB with a BB! I never underwent the training and I've always thought that the Marines trained shooters better than did the Army. I was in both services.

Today I shoot my 1911 and Hi Power at the 200 yd gong and hit it pretty regular. I enjoy long range pistol shooting. My shooting buddy and I have M1 Garands. We give the 500 yd gong fits.

It is kind of like the Zin of Shooting. You clear your brain of all problems and concentrate on the sights, the wind, the range, your spot weld, breathing and trigger control. Shooting is good for you. I love it.

[Dean Romig]

In my earliesd days in Vermont at the deer camp with my Dad, Uncle Jack and Hubert Simons (the owner of the camp) they were tossing soda cans up over the meadow in front of the camp and shooting a .22 rifle at them, hitting most of them. I think I was twelve or so and said I'd like to try. They passed me the rifle and a .22 Long. A can was tossed out over the meadow, I took careful aim, touched the trigger and the can went spinning wildly off its original course. Well the men seemed pretty shocked and asked me to try it again, knowing full well that I could never repeat the shot. I was passed another bullet and I tucked it in the chamber, closed the bolt and yelled "Throw it!" The can sailed out over the field and once again I took careful aim, touched the trigger just as I had done the first time and the can (amazingly) went twirling straight up then straight down. The men were dumbfounded.... How could this boy repeat that difficult shot a second time...? A while later my Dad levelled with me. They were passing me .22 Longs all the while they were using .22 birdshot

I still have an article that tells about the BB to BB training for the special forces in Viet Nam and the article goes on to say that another form of practice was th shoot an aspirin tossed perpendicular to the BB-gun shooter much like a clay target at station 4 on a skeet range and the shooters averaged 80% or better. The premise was that the center of any target, whether stationary of moving, is exactly the same size... infinitesimally small.

[Big D]

Our score on Bats was about 1 bat per box, but we figured out how to decoy them by throwing a handful of gravel in the air - the bats thought it was a swarm of bugs, and would fly towards the gravel

[Steve McCarty]

Originally Posted by Dean Romig

In my earliesd days in Vermont at the deer camp with my Dad, Uncle Jack and Hubert Simons (the owner of the camp) they were tossing soda cans up over the meadow in front of the camp and shooting a .22 rifle at them, hitting most of them. I think I was twelve or so and said I'd like to try. They passed me the rifle and a .22 Long. A can was tossed out over the meadow, I took careful aim, touched the trigger and the can went spinning wildly off its original course. Well the men seemed pretty shocked and asked me to try it again, knowing full well that I could never repeat the shot. I was passed another bullet and I tucked it in the chamber, closed the bolt and yelled "Throw it!" The can sailed out over the field and once again I took careful aim, touched the trigger just as I had done the first time and the can (amazingly) went twirling straight up then straight down. The men were dumbfounded.... How could this boy repeat that difficult shot a second time...? A while later my Dad levelled with me. They were passing me .22 Longs all the while they were using .22 birdshot

I still have an article that tells about the BB to BB training for the special forces in Viet Nam and the article goes on to say that another form of practice was th shoot an aspirin tossed perpendicular to the BB-gun shooter much like a clay target at station 4 on a skeet range and the shooters averaged 80% or better. The premise was that the center of any target, whether stationary of moving, is exactly the same size... infinitesimally small.

Now that you mention it I do recall hearing tales of guys shooting aspirin with a BB. I joined the Army Reserve in 1980 and became a drill sergeant. Most of my fellow soldiers were VN Vets, many ex-Marines. I was too. Eventually my commission came thru and I retired as a major. But some of those old soldiers had fought hard in VN and some had medals up the ying yang. Those guys were pretty crusty and I enjoyed soldiering with them. They talked about shooting aspirin. They also talked about shooting gooners with their .45s when they were being overrun. They stood back to back reaching behind them to see if the other guy was still standing and banged away. That old 1911 would knock an enemy soldier down flat. The Marines are bringing it back I believe. What's with that 9 anyway?

[Steve McCarty]

Originally Posted by John Dallas

Our score on Bats was about 1 bat per box, but we figured out how to decoy them by throwing a handful of gravel in the air - the bats thought it was a swarm of bugs, and would fly towards the gravel

That's interesting. I love watching bats fly. I can only imagine what it'd be like to try to shoot one. I never tried, but if given he opportunity, of course, I would have.

[Bill Murphy]

I went through the "Quik Kill" program in Army Basic Training at Fort Bragg in 1967. It was an amazing block of instruction considering it was a one day course. I had shot aerial targets with a rifle for years before I went into the Army, so I figured I would be the star of the show. How wrong I was. Guys whom I assumed had never shot a gun before Basic Training were hitting the same thrown targets that I was. We started with 2 1/2" aluminum discs and quickly progressed to quarter sized discs. I never did well on dime sized discs, but some did moderately well at them. No one shot any aspirin sized targets. I think Lucky McDaniel describes such success in his book. The "Quik Kill" program was developed from Lucky McDaniel's methods. Small aerial targets shot with a rifle by mortals are thrown relatively straight up in a defined area. I have never seen it done with random crossing throws. I would like to see that done, however. The "Quik Kill" guns are Daisys with relatively massive stocks, no sights, and US markings. No commercial Daisy was ever an exact duplicate of the "Quik Kill" gun, which is rare on the resale market, although they do occasionally appear. They were selling for hundreds of dollars the last time I saw one offered for sale.

[Researcher]

My this has wandered from the Winchester Model 1897!!

[Dean Romig]

I'll post the article tonight.

[Bill Murphy]

I think bats have a different image today. However, I understand that some guys still ground swat ducks and pheasants. I just bought a Model 121 Remington .22 shotgun. I'll let you know what it's good for. I still have a box or two of ammunition. I always wondered how well they shot with single projectile ammunition. On the 97 subject, I have a 97 Trap Gun that shoots to one side. Does anyone know how shotgun barrels are bent to correct point of aim?

[MarketHunter]

I used to squirrel hunt with an old timer who could take a sling shot and hit a soda can throw up in the air. I've seen him kill a squirrel with it too shooting ball bearings.

He was murder with his old Winchester target grade bolt action rifle. He never came into camp with a squirrel that wasn't shot somewhere in the head.

I hunted with him the last time about ten years ago. I need to call and see if he's still at it, kinda lost track of him after I moved so far north. He's over 85 now at least, was a WW2 veteran that came into it right at the end of the war.


Destry