LeFever G grade - Page 2

Old and Reliable · 08-22-2009, 08:59 AM

I have a early G 12 with 30 inch Damascus tubes, a project gun. I have shot it at clays and pigeons with BP and lo-pressure 2.5" RST hulls- nice old economy grade gun, DT, extractors. I went to the LeFever site, mine is SN 24xxx made about 1894-95, has the sears on the sideplates and the single cocking hook design. I found out that after about SN 25xxx LeFever re-designed the mechanism and put the sears inside the stock, but as this IeFever I presently own is the only one I have dis-assembled (removed the sideplates only) I can't say for certain.

Mine has a "less bulky" appearance at the breech, has the take up screw with the two spanner wrench holes, weighs about 7 lbs. 6 oz. and balances at the hinge pin. Nice gun, but NOT a Parker by a long shot. DU had an article a few years ago by Ron Spomer on doubles, believe they had a 16 gauge Optomist Grade shown, very fine looking gun indeed.

Alligator · 08-22-2009, 10:54 AM

The only ones I have been into were later guns apparently, as the sears were internal. It has been years since I have been in one, and my knowledge of Lefever's is not nearly as complete as a bonafide afficianado. I have just always liked their sleek lines, and if I find what I would like it will be a later gun with steel barrels. Years ago when Shooting Times Magazine was a larger format magazine, and Wallace Labisky was their shotgun man, He did a beautifully illustrated article on Syracuse Lefevers and Uncle Dan Boxlocks also. I need to see if I still have those articles as they were the ones that got me "hot" on Lefevers. Regards, and happy resoration. Lee.

Steve McCarty · 10-01-2011, 12:01 PM

Here's my little "I" grade Lefever, made in 1901. It was the hardware store model and the least expensive of these old Lefevers. This gun has been re-done and looks nearly new. I know that people aren't suppost to rise to re-done guns, but I like this one and it fits me fine. Very light and quick. Nice crisp triggers. The later box lock Lefevers aren't nearly as nice. The fellow who "did" this gun, who is well known in the Lefever community, believes that Lefevers were better guns than Parkers. They are lighter. The gun is not damascus.

I own a Fox Sterlingworth, this Lefever, two Parkers (GH and SBT), an ASTRA Spanish double, an SKB double (new) and my dad's old Knickerbacher. It is interesting to compare them all against one another. Which is best? Well that's a matter of both conjecture and choice, and frankly I love them all....except for the SKB, it's just too new. The GH is still on lay-away. So the jury is still out on which I like best, but the Lefever and Fox are definitely in the running. What I have seen of the GH is very nice however.

Alligator · 10-01-2011, 03:54 PM

Steve: Nice "I" grade!!!!. Whom ever redid it did a great job. I too don't have problems with a rebuilt/restored/rewhatever gun as long as it was done for a good reason cosmetically or mechanically out of necessity. My favorite "shooting" Parker is a DHE 20 gage on a #1 frame that had been poorly restocked but with beautiful wood that I was able to re-inlet and save. The forend is off an AHE and the serial number on the iron didn't match. The barrels have been sleeved from 16 gage to 20 gage and done right by Merrington I'm told.No, it's not a collector Parker and it's damned heavy for a 20 gage but it is a damned fine clays gun, and at an investment by me of only the woodwork and 2K$ I would rather have it than a some of the worn out crap and repro's I have seen lately. BTW, I now have a Lefever G grade with damascus barrels in 12 gage that looks as good as yours but is untouched except the barrels have been rebrowned. I wish it had steel barrels but these check out and work fine with RST's. Besides that, it was the last "marque" I needed to complete my collection on McIntosh's 7 "Best Guns made in America". (There is an old thread here on the Parker) Lee.

Steve McCarty · 10-01-2011, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lee r moege

Steve: Nice "I" grade!!!!. Whom ever redid it did a great job. I too don't have problems with a rebuilt/restored/rewhatever gun as long as it was done for a good reason cosmetically or mechanically out of necessity. My favorite "shooting" Parker is a DHE 20 gage on a #1 frame that had been poorly restocked but with beautiful wood that I was able to re-inlet and save. The forend is off an AHE and the serial number on the iron didn't match. The barrels have been sleeved from 16 gage to 20 gage and done right by Merrington I'm told.No, it's not a collector Parker and it's damned heavy for a 20 gage but it is a damned fine clays gun, and at an investment by me of only the woodwork and 2K$ I would rather have it than a some of the worn out crap and repro's I have seen lately. BTW, I now have a Lefever G grade with damascus barrels in 12 gage that looks as good as yours but is untouched except the barrels have been rebrowned. I wish it had steel barrels but these check out and work fine with RST's. Besides that, it was the last "marque" I needed to complete my collection on McIntosh's 7 "Best Guns made in America". (There is an old thread here on the Parker) Lee.

The work was done by Keith Kercher in Oregon. I had a wonderful damascus Lefever in my hands 10 years ago, but the dealer wouldn't send it to a local FFL and I lost the gun to the dealer's pal. Oh, well. We live, we learn and we do our best to buy wonderful shotguns.

My Sterlingworth feels like a Parker when in my hands. The Lefever has a heft all its own. It is almost slight. But both the Fox and the Parker feel stronger, meaning less likely to fail, but that's just a subjective evaluation. The Sterlingworth 12 gage with 30 inch tubes F&M is pretty chunky, but nothing like some early autos, like a Model 11 in 12 gage for instance.

I am blown away by the beauty of the damascus barrels and I'd like to gather more. They used to be cheap, since folks were afraid to shoot them, but I see that is changing.

Brush Buster · 10-02-2011, 11:21 AM

I was at a local Gun Show a month or so ago and one of the sellers had a C Grade Le Fever on his table in 10 Ga. ,The engraving and the wood were fantastic ,the bores were so clean they appeared to be honed ,the two reasons I passed on it were ,#1 Lack of knowledge about the gun and the second reason the barrels were an odd length 28 3/8 or there abouts and the outside of the " Fine Damascus Barrels " , were pitted beyond imagination ,which led me to beleive with the inside of the bores looking so nice the gun had really been messed with and again ,not knowing really anything about the early Le Fevers ,I passed ,very good wood and engraving in a C Grade 10 Ga. but very poor barrels ,what would you fellows in the know feel the gun would have been worth ? Russ

Steve McCarty · 10-02-2011, 03:11 PM

Good story Brush, and one that all gun collectors can relate to. There are two things that I follow when buying guns. One is knowledge and the other is "hunch". Both of these elements have failed me in the past however.

This site is an excellent example of "knowledge" re Parkers. These guy know what they are talking about and are unlikely to be caught by the pig in a poke. As for hunch? Well, it is more esoteric. You just experienced it with the Lefever. You also mixed in a little horse sense.

Sometimes I recognize a gun as being authentic or not immediately. Then I take a good hard look at it to see if it is an excellent fake. Some are very well done. Then I try to access the seller. While a con man can be a very good con man he is usually not very successful because they develope a rep and the informed will avoid them. However, a sucker is born every day, and while I hate to mention it, I've been that person more that I'd like to admit.

I think your decision about the Lefever was correct. If a gun has wear it has to be even wear and it must show up in the proper places. Almost always at the balance of the piece, where it was carried, on the lower tang, and trigger guard where it was cupped in the hand. Forearm wear tells the age of a gun better than stock wear because the stock is most often refurbished. Butt pads/plates tell a story too. I like old guns with approprate wear as long as they aren't badly cracked or are missing chunks and parts. It takes some experience however to discern old and loved, from junk.

Every now and then I find an old gun at a show or pawn shop that others have not recognized for what it is, and it is those days that we all live for. It has happened to me. I have also missed some that I should have bought (Oh, boy should I have bought!) A painful example? A Winchester model 21, like new for $650 in a local pawn shop. The shop owne who I knew and trusted (a former student) said the gun was brought in by a guy who just wanted what he'd paid for it. I hefted the gun. I wasn't really into double barreled shotguns then and frankly the design and short barrels didn't excite me. I went home, changed my mind, when back and ......well, you know the rest of the story. There are others.

IMO the trick is to jump when the opportunity arrises, and after years of collecting guns of all kinds, I try to not miss an opportunity. Thus the GH that I just bought. (I really can't afford it; retired you see.) People who work in guns shops often don't know a muzzle cap from an ejection port. Those are the stores that I haunt. Every now and then I make a score.

My favorite finds are very dirty guns. Sometimes the seller can't see through the grime and prices them cheap. Old oil and grime and goo in the bore can also be a perservative. I've bought several old filthy guns that cleaned up to be minty.

I'll bet you have done the same. I'd like a nice damascus Lefever too. My $ however gets excited when I find a Parker that's priced right.

charlie cleveland · 10-02-2011, 08:42 PM

russ that old c grade was probably in the 2to 3 thousand dollar range... charlie

Brush Buster · 10-03-2011, 10:29 AM

Thank you Charlie , As you know ,I am really hooked up in Parker guns but have to admit the workmanship on the Le Fever C appeared comparable to a B Grade Parker with the Double Dog engraving and the beautiful wood and Fleur De Lais ,checking ,just a beauty ,but I always feel the condition of the Barrels is what makes the true value of the " Double Barreled Guns " and this poor old gun just didn't have it . You are exact in your pricing ,that is just where the gun was tagged ! Best ; Russ

charlie cleveland · 10-04-2011, 09:22 PM

russ them old lefevers higher graded guns are some fine looking guns...ive got my dads old lefever its a high graded gun but unfornatly its got very pitted barrels also... but i like it pitts and all.. got the best piece of wood ive ever seen on a gun....lefevers are truly beautiful guns but so are parker s lc smith and fox lord the list goes on and on.... charlie