Winchester 1897 Black Diamond Trap

[Ed Blake]

I think these pump guns have great lines, and I've noticed more of them popping up on the auction sites. They all seem to have short LOPs, like 13 3/4". I've also noticed several variations on the butt: a curved Winchester butt plate, a flat butt for a pad, and another with a steel butt plate. I assume the shooter could order whatever he wanted. Neat guns. When looking at them is there anything to be especially aware of? Thanks

[winplumber]

Worn sear springs hammer will fall when closing action also watch the web of your hand I love the 97s

[Steve McCarty]

Originally Posted by Ed Blake

I think these pump guns have great lines, and I've noticed more of them popping up on the auction sites. They all seem to have short LOPs, like 13 3/4". I've also noticed several variations on the butt: a curved Winchester butt plate, a flat butt for a pad, and another with a steel butt plate. I assume the shooter could order whatever he wanted. Neat guns. When looking at them is there anything to be especially aware of? Thanks

Hunters and shooters used to wear heavy canvas coats, or a thick wool sweater and some kind of shooting vest, thus the short LOP to compensate. I know that I feel the difference when I shoot a longer gun while wearing winter duds and I don't like it. Even a quarter inch in LOP makes a difference to me.

Pumps fell from favor, but now are gaining ground and those old Model 97's that languished in grandpa's closet are worth money today. I have one, but don't shoot it much. I prefer the model 12....or better yet an Ithaca mod 37.

[Bill Murphy]

Model 97 Traps are scarce in high condition. Some Traps do not have the matted barrel but are still original. I have not seen a Trap that I considered original that did not have the TRAP GUN stamp on the breech bolt. The curved hard rubber buttplate is hard to find. Some early buttplates have peaks like the Parker dog's head buttplate. The complete package is original butt, TRAP GUN stamp, matted barrel and receiver top, and black diamond stock. 32" barrel is scarce in a Trap. I have not had the opportunity to buy one in years of searching.

[Blind Dog]

Some more detailed pics of my '97 below. Its pull is 14&1/8" which is usable for me (could be another 1/2"). My main problem is the small trigger guard when gloved in cold weather. The butt stock and plate are slightly curved; the BP is hard rubber like a DHBP without the "peak".

[charlie cleveland]

them old 97 s are fine guns..most seen a lot of hard use and were hunted hard but most have survived...ive got a good shooter in the 97 its a 12 ga 30 inch full choke and kicks like a mule with high brass shells.... charlie

[Steve McCarty]

Originally Posted by Bill Murphy

Model 97 Traps are scarce in high condition. Some Traps do not have the matted barrel but are still original. I have not seen a Trap that I considered original that did not have the TRAP GUN stamp on the breech bolt. The curved hard rubber buttplate is hard to find. Some early buttplates have peaks like the Parker dog's head buttplate. The complete package is original butt, TRAP GUN stamp, matted barrel and receiver top, and black diamond stock. 32" barrel is scarce in a Trap. I have not had the opportunity to buy one in years of searching.

I know a fellow who owns one. He inherited it. He told me that I could have his first one or two children, but he is keeping that gun. He said it's like new. I haven't seen it tho. A 97 Black Diamond trap gun.

Question: If I take an old Model 12 and mount one of those strap on combs to the stock have I just created a trap gun?

[Holeshot]

I have shot some really good registered trap scores with a solid rib model 12. So yes, anything is possible. Dave

[Steve McCarty]

Originally Posted by charlie cleveland

them old 97 s are fine guns..most seen a lot of hard use and were hunted hard but most have survived...ive got a good shooter in the 97 its a 12 ga 30 inch full choke and kicks like a mule with high brass shells.... charlie

Pumps were cutting edge shotguns at the turn of the century (the one before last) and were extremely popular for several decades. I still like them. When I was a kid almost everyone shot a pump; a few autos. As a s a college kid someone loaned me a double with a plastic stock! I did fine with it. Have no idea what it was.

I have had trouble shooting a pump at skeet, but I'm not that good. If I could break the first bird quickly I'd have plenty of time to work that trombone.

I like the pencil thin feel of a pump, but I like the old world mystic of the double. I have been shooting trap and skeet and want to shoot my old doubles; a Parker GH, a Fox Sterlingworth, a Spanish ASTRA and an "I" grade Lefever. No one shoots guns like these in my club. No one cares tho. I can shoot whatever I want to shoot.

Here is the question; does anyone shoot one of these old doubles with the low comb at trap/skeet and do any good with them? I suppose I'd have to "cover the bird" but that's okay with me....if it works.

[Holeshot]

My first parker was a vh 12, 28 inch, imp mod and full. First time shooting skeet I broke a 24. High 8 proved tough with that choke. I walked off station 7 with 2 clouds of smoke on a windless day that left my fellow shooters amazed. What fun. I now shoot a SBT and a vh skeet gun and shoot very well indeed. Dave