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Parker Reproduction "Production Chart"
Unread 11-24-2021, 09:56 AM   #1
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Default Parker Reproduction "Production Chart"

Wouldn't it be a great feature to have a Parker Reproduction "Production Chart" made as a sticky on this page of the forum or be reinstated with access via the Home Page?

I believe the Production Chart could easily be revised and updated to be as accurate as our collective knowledge allows. And going forward, as additional information comes to light, further revisions be made at that time.

What do you think, do you agree or disagree?
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Unread 11-24-2021, 10:02 AM   #2
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I agree completely Greg.
The Parker Reproduction by Winchester is definitely part of Parker (shotgun) history and deserves space, as you say, on this website. JMHO





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Unread 11-26-2021, 02:58 PM   #3
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I have been watching this thread hoping that someone or (s) would explain the concept or content of such a "Production Chart".
I must say I don't understand.
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Unread 11-26-2021, 03:24 PM   #4
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The below is an example of a Parker Reproduction "Production Chart" that several of us know to be inaccurate and in need of updating.

Production numbers:

DHE 28 Gauge 4,203
DHE 20 Gauge 5,800
DHE 12 Gauge 2,137
DHE 12 Gauge Steel Shot 350
DHE 12 Gauge Sporting Clays 125
DHE 410 Gauge 33
BHE 28 Gauge 7
BHE 20 Gauge 100
BHE 12 Gauge 100
BHE 410 Gauge 9
A-1 Factory Engraved, All Gauges 150
A-1 Custom Engraved, All Gauges 300
A-1 28/.410 Combo 16
Plus 500 16 Ga barrel sets that fit on the 0 frame 20ga DHE

If we just want to put some production numbers to be in-the-ballpark in the Production Chart then fine, but I believe we owe it to ourselves and to those coming after us to do better. I, and others; have questioned the number of DHE and BHE .410s produced, there also appears to be issues with the number of DHE 20s produced, the chart shows 5800 produced, but in Nick Sisley's interview with Jack Skeuse, Mr. Skeuse reported there were actually 6050 built.

As far as the Custom A-1 Specials are concerned I would agree Gournet did the lion's share of those, but if just his numbers are used in the chart there's a bunch more out there. I can name several other engravers like Baer, Koluch, Hurst, Strosin, Griffiths, Gamradt, Churchill and others that have completed custom in-the-white Parker Repro A-1 Specials. A few of these engravers have done multiples of them.

Like I had said previously: "I believe the Production Chart could easily be revised and updated to be as accurate as our collective knowledge allows. And going forward, as additional information comes to light, further revisions be made at that time."
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Unread 11-26-2021, 03:52 PM   #5
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OK!
Now I understnd. Except how do we make this chart more accurate other than learning if more guns in each catagory were produced, by members entering higher S#s?
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Unread 11-26-2021, 04:00 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Baehman View Post
The below is an example of a Parker Reproduction "Production Chart" that several of us know to be inaccurate and in need of updating.

Production numbers:

DHE 28 Gauge 4,203
DHE 20 Gauge 5,800
DHE 12 Gauge 2,137
DHE 12 Gauge Steel Shot 350
DHE 12 Gauge Sporting Clays 125
DHE 410 Gauge 33
BHE 28 Gauge 7
BHE 20 Gauge 100
BHE 12 Gauge 100
BHE 410 Gauge 9
A-1 Factory Engraved, All Gauges 150
A-1 Custom Engraved, All Gauges 300
A-1 28/.410 Combo 16
Plus 500 16 Ga barrel sets that fit on the 0 frame 20ga DHE

If we just want to put some production numbers to be in-the-ballpark in the Production Chart then fine, but I believe we owe it to ourselves and to those coming after us to do better. I, and others; have questioned the number of DHE and BHE .410s produced, there also appears to be issues with the number of DHE 20s produced, the chart shows 5800 produced, but in Nick Sisley's interview with Jack Skeuse, Mr. Skeuse reported there were actually 6050 built.

As far as the Custom A-1 Specials are concerned I would agree Gournet did the lion's share of those, but if just his numbers are used in the chart there's a bunch more out there. I can name several other engravers like Baer, Koluch, Hurst, Strosin, Griffiths, Gamradt, Churchill and others that have completed custom in-the-white Parker Repro A-1 Specials. A few of these engravers have done multiples of them.

Like I had said above: "I believe the Production Chart could easily be revised and updated to be as accurate as our collective knowledge allows. And going forward, as additional information comes to light, further revisions be made at that time."


Greg - I agree completely with you on all points. It would be very nice to see a chart created from your collected data produced as a link from the left column of our Home page. It could be edited and/or added to as valid, verifiable info arises.





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Unread 11-26-2021, 04:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jurewicz View Post
OK!
Now I understnd. Except how do we make this chart more accurate other than learning if more guns in each catagory were produced, by members entering higher S#s?
Bob Jurewicz
Bob, there could be and there are more catagories than what is shown in the above chart I posted such as: 28/.410 bi-gauge sets in DHE and BHE grades, factory 3-bbl. sets, etc. When we talk about lowest/highest serial numbers, etc. that also opens up the possibility for a "Parker Reproductions Found" chart.
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Unread 11-26-2021, 04:48 PM   #8
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OK!
So lets do it.
Ask John D to post Greg's initial chart at the beginning of the Repro Catagory as a "sticky" with request for added info.
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Unread 12-03-2021, 04:03 PM   #9
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The below Production Chart is copied from above is known to be in error, in need of updating and then reinstated as either a sticky in the Parker Reproductions sub-forum or accessed on the "Parker Reproduction by Winchester" listing via the "Parker Grades" from the left hand column on the "Home page".

DHE 28 Gauge 4,203
DHE 20 Gauge 5,800
DHE 12 Gauge 2,137
DHE 12 Gauge Steel Shot 350
DHE 12 Gauge Sporting Clays 125
DHE 410 Gauge 33
BHE 28 Gauge 7
BHE 20 Gauge 100
BHE 12 Gauge 100
BHE 410 Gauge 9
A-1 Factory Engraved, All Gauges 150
A-1 Custom Engraved, All Gauges 300
A-1 28/.410 Combo 16
Plus 500 16 Ga barrel sets that fit on the 0 frame 20ga DHE

The below are some things to consider when updating the Production Chart. I believe frame sizes ought to be considered when updating the chart.

* 16 A-1 Special 28/.410 sets were produced--these obviously were built on a 00-frame.

* 9 BHE .410 guns were produced--no frame size is listed, but it's assumed these were on a 0000-frame, right? If we assume Sisley's reporting is accurate -- as he did interview Jack Skeuse for the article, we know at least 33 0000-frame guns were completed, but we don't know what grade they were finished out in. From a pic which was previously posted we see that it is a 0000-frame BHE and it is #52, so it can be assumed there are at least 52 BHEs, or more, on a 0000-frame out there--and there were 100 more 0000-frame guns at the time of Sisley's article that were started. We do know that Gournet engraved some of those as A-1 Specials, but we don't know how many he finished or if he, or other gunsmiths, finished them and in what grades.

* 33 DHE .410 guns were produced, but we don't know what frame size they were built on--were they on a 00 or 0000-frame?? Where did this quantity of 33 come from, was it the Sisley article?

* Do we know how many stand-alone Repro .410s were built on a 00-frame? I have asked this question several times and never received a response from anyone that has actually seen or heard of one.

* Do we know the number of DHE 28/.410 00-frame sets that were built?

* Do we know how many factory same gauge 3-bbl. sets were produced? I know of at least one shown in this forum, there could be others. How about bi-gauge 3-bbl. factory sets? (I personally have a problem considering a 20/16 3-bbl. set as being "original factory built")

Maybe there are no answers to the above, but if you're like me and enjoy the hobby, you'd like to know. At the very least, it appears the production chart could use a little help. Again, it's our collective knowledge that can provide that help.

There are several things we have learned and found concerning Parker Reproductions regarding the Production Chart above:

1. We now know and have seen pics of at least three 0000-frame BHE .410s produced that have DHE-style engraving. I believe these ought to be noted in a revised Production Chart. I believe everyone would have to agree that this is rare, odd and unusual -- even in the world of Parkers.

2. The Parker Reproduction Production Chart above states that there were 9 BHE .410s built. We have seen pics of B .410-0045 and B .410-0052 (both of these and another of which I don't have the S/N) happen to be built on 4/0 frames. It appears from these serial numbers that there were at least 52 built -- and there's probably more out there. The Sisley article corroborates these findings.

3. There are no BHE .410/28 sets mentioned in the Production Chart. We now know there is one and only one BHE .410/28 set ever produced. This is documented by a copy of a type-written letter by J.T. Skeuse, the President of Parker Reproductions to Leslie Blumberg.

4. The Sisley interview of Jack Skeuse stated there were actually 6050 20-ga. DHEs produced, the chart above shows 5800 built.

5. Commemorative and special editions, i.e.: the NSFL, BBHS and SSS guns ought to be listed separately as each series were assigned their own set of serial numbers.

Given the above, I respectfully request that the Production Chart be reinstated, revised and updated to show these Parker Repros found. And going forward, as additional information comes to light, further revisions be made at that time.
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Unread 12-03-2021, 04:53 PM   #10
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I agree Greg and if anyone has more information on the Skeuse Parker Reproduction project than you do it’s got to be someone named Skeuse or someone who worked with or for Tom Skeuse.





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