Putting The Cart Before The Horse

[Theodore LeDurt]

In Wisconsin, all dove shooting on public land must use non-tox shot. Trouble is, other than steel, what other non-tox is available in 7 or 8 shot?

Not wanting to take the chokes out of my Parker, I'm loading ITX for waterfowl, but the smallest pellet is #6. When steel shot came into play, it was only mandatory in 12ga. All other gauges were exempt. As manufactures began producing steel shot in all gauges and gun manufacturers began making steel compatible guns, steel shot became mandatory for all.

Now attempts are being made to force all upland shooting, be it for dove or other birds on state land, to use non-tox. The trouble is, upland guns are not necessarily steel shot compatible and as you know, many serious upland shooters have invested a lot of time and money into their classic bird guns.

Perhaps states need to consider the availability of a product before the mandate it. Are there other states experiencing the same push for all non-tox?

[charlie cleveland]

looks like the do gooders have won another round..hate to see this become law for wisconsin...as you know most dove hunters git about 3 doves to the box including me..its gonna be some pretty pricey shells to shoot doves if we shoot our old model guns...i hope you find a cheap subistute other than lead or steel in the smaller size shot... charlie

[Dean Romig]

Originally Posted by Theodore LeDurt

In Wisconsin, all dove shooting on public land must use non-tox shot. Trouble is, other than steel, what other non-tox is available in 7 or 8 shot?

Not wanting to take the chokes out of my Parker, I'm loading ITX for waterfowl, but the smallest pellet is #6. When steel shot came into play, it was only mandatory in 12ga. All other gauges were exempt. As manufactures began producing steel shot in all gauges and gun manufacturers began making steel compatible guns, steel shot became mandatory for all.

Now attempts are being made to force all upland shooting, be it for dove or other birds on state land, to use non-tox. The trouble is, upland guns are not necessarily steel shot compatible and as you know, many serious upland shooters have invested a lot of time and money into their classic bird guns.

Perhaps states need to consider the availability of a product before the mandate it. Are there other states experiencing the same push for all non-tox?

Why would the antis care if we can get ammunition?

[Roundsworth]

Minnesota tried it a few years ago. I was sent a survey about it and gave them my opinion, as I am sure all the other people did. Nothing ever became of it, unless it just takes a few years to make these types of laws.

[TARNATION !!!]

I wonder how many upland game birds shot using lead would have to be consumed to duplicate this situation. 5 1/2 year old ingests thousands of lead pellets from exercise ankle weights. The situation ended, through medical intervention, without lead poisoning. Good for the doctors and interesting from the science of it all. Very interesting first sentence in the Abstract Background statement. LINK

[C.O.B.]

There's an artical in this months Shooting Sportsman (I haven't read it yet) on non-tox ammunition for small bores so I would think that someone would make it in the smaller sizes. have you contacted RST?

[Theodore LeDurt]

After contacting one of the reloading companies they informed me that no non-tox other than steel was available in anything smaller than #6. Later I did see that RST offers smaller shot, however I usually shoot a case of shells (250 rounds) at doves and the average cost for this is $55. Where steel shot is about the same price as lead in small sizes, no such luck with RST's Nice shot. The same 250 rounds will cost $750! Unless Nice shot is covered under TARP, I can't afford to shoot it.

[TARNATION !!!]

More info for those who would ban lead for upland, but of course the science doesn't really matter does it???

Elemental lead and inorganic lead compounds are absorbed through ingestion or inhalation. Pulmonary absorption is efficient, particularly if airborne lead particle diameters are 1 mm generally are completely absorbed by the alveoli. Gastrointestinal absorption of lead is less effective and depends on a number of factors. Lead absorption rates may increase with iron, zinc, and calcium deficiencies. Children are at the highest risk for toxicity because they absorb up to 50% percent of the amount of lead ingested, whereas adults absorb only about 10 to 20% percent. Transdermal absorption is minimal for inorganic lead. reference

Lead shot of diameter 1mm or less is smaller than #12 shot of 1.3mm. Ammo charts I have seen do not go smaller than #12 and I sure have never seen it used. Upland birds are usually shot with #6 but as large as #4 for heavy late season birds and as small as #7 1/2 for in close birds. Never shot doves but I hear talk of #8 and #9. So any upland shot size is too heavy and large for inhalation. Next is ingestion. Who is going to eat lead shot?? Well, maybe the hunter but the amount would be minimal after proper preparation of the bird and the transition time in the gut is too short to have an impact. So, not much risk to the hunter and no risk to the non-hunting public. Finally, transdermal absorption is not really a factor, even if someone went behind the hunter and made every effort to retrieve by hand every pellet that hit the ground and not the bird. Now that would be beyond the realm of any realistic probability of occurring.

But then none of this matters, because it is the same for migratory birds and clay birds and popping pattern boards. It is all about an emotional response to mis-information or non-information. Next there will be an investigation of tungsten toxicity. Copper is also toxic - there goes the Daisy.

I think I should stop now.

Cheers,
Jack

BTW I have ingested the occasional pellet and for fun I had the doc do a blood test for lead. The doc told me I had no reason for concern. I have eaten a lot of lead shot game from the time I started on solid foods many decades ago.

[Kevin McCormack]

I have decided to take the "Emperors' New Clothes" approach to non-toxic shot for upland bird hunting where required. This approach is analagous but not exactly similar to that taken by my hard-core waterfowling buddies on MD's Eastern Shore, who 'back in the day' would calculate the then-current fine for baiting ($56.50 c. 1965) against the number of times they could hunt out of a 100-lb. bag of shelled corn until caught and finded by the warden. (Citation fee vs. market price of corn per hundredweight).

My new approach will be to simply stay with lead shot for as many hunts as it takes to get caught and fined, then calculate how many boxes of non-toxic smallbore upland loads I would have been able to purchase for that amount and stayed legal. Innovative, no?

[MarketHunter]

Kevin,

I knew I liked you for some reason.


Destry