New member has a Ithaca Lewis project

[DMason]

Excellent photo sequence! I have successfully been able to obtain very satisfactory timing on the locking bolt assembly. Regarding the positioning of my top lever, I found that simply tightening up the cam retaining spring a bit more snugly put the lever in a nice closed position, sitting slightly to the right of center, and a comfortable amount of travel when pushed to the open position. I then reinstalled the bolt spring and the positions stayed where they were. Very pleased. Thanks for the help! I did not get to the point of moving the dovetailed detent on the bottom of the cam, things seem to be lining up without that step.

I now have another pedestrian question about my next reassembly procedure. It should be obvious that this is the first double gun I have taken down! This goes back to an earlier question I posted about getting both of the hammers back in under pressure. Your 'screwdriver lever' photos were perfect, I did a dry run and was able to get the mainsprings to easily move down far enough to be able get the hammers pinned in.

My question though, is, what about the long sear release springs that eventually rest under the same pin (screw) that the middle of the mainsprings sit under. Do I get the hammers attached and under pressure and then later somehow fit those flat sear springs in, or do I somehow get both the mainsprings (V springs) and the flat sear springs under the pin while fixing the hammers in place?

I hope my question was expressed clearly enough to understand. It was a bit wordy.

I hope to get some pictures posted by tomorrow, I have gotten one of my old cameras to take at least marginal shots, I hope they will be viewable on this site.

Do you think my following order of operations is correct, by the way? I am thinking: 1, firing pins in (done), 2, barrel bolt, cam and top lever assembly in place (done), 3, hammers in place and under pressure, (starting at this step, not done), 4, sears in place under pressure, 5, cocking arm(s) in place, 6, triggers and safety assembly put in place in conjunction with one another, and then finally, unless I have left out a step, getting the bolt locking pin and lifter in place and screw in the bottom plate. Am I at least thinking in the right direction?

Sorry for the lengthy post.

[DMason]

Here are a few out of focus pictures of my Lewis project.

[alcaviglia]

Dan,

Glad to hear that the locking bolt turned out well, especially without having to play around with the dovetailed piece.

Your order of operations is pretty close. First, the sear spring pins are the same pins that the cocking bar rock on. So, you first have to place the cocking bar into the receiver. It is far easier to install the sear springs before the sears themselves.

Once the cocking bar and sear springs are installed, raise the rear leaf on the springs and "wedge-in" the sear. The spring pressure will hold it in place. Rock it left to right as you force it forward and it will make it's way into alignment with the hole for the pin. Screw it in place and you're ready to go.

Two other things to mention:

1) The hammers should have a bevel toward the outside to lower the profile in allowance of the firing pin retaining screws. Before installing the hammers, make sure that the screws are in far enough to retain the pins no matter if they rotate (the pins' retaining collars may not be perfectly circular), but not so far that the hammer will strike them, crushing the threads.

2) The trip pin and trip spring are last before seating the trigger plate.

Nice pictures, by the way. And no apologies for length of post required. I'm sure that I have posted twice as much on the subject. Besides, it's a fun project to rebuild/restore a piece of functional art. Especially when it's of American vintage. I read a bit of excitement in what you're doing and can very much appreciate it.

Also, out of curiosity, what are your plans for the finish on the receiver? Leaving it polished as is?

[DMason]

Thanks for some of the clarifications. Yes, I had forgotten that the cocking bar and sears are screwed with the same pin.

No doubt I will be calling on your expertise again. I am also still short one firing pin screw. The missing one has been replaced by a very short 6-40 set screw until a proper one is found or I break down and make make one myself.

Yes, this project is very exciting! I do not usually disturb the original finish on a gun, but this old Lewis just was asking to be brought back to new. I love vintage American crafts and since (very sadly) Ithaca double guns have such a low ceiling on their value unless they are high grade models, it was all a go for a complete strip down.

I plan on rust bluing the barrels once the Houston summer heat and humidity arrive. I will be attempting a high polish finish so there will be many rounds of rusting followed by lots of carding with fine grade wheels. I am looking forward to the challenge. The receiver is still a question, I would love to re case harden it and get some beautiful coloring into it, but my fear of warping may have me just rust blue the receiver as well, we will see. I am looking for reasonable pricing on at least simple engraving (at least to get the basic original engraving sharp again, and maybe even some fancier work if I can find a reasonably priced engraver out there. Any leads from anyone reading this would be so greatly appreciated. Case hardening leads are also very welcome. I know of the famous (read, expensive) guys out there, but maybe there is a working man's case hardener and engraver out there...

[alcaviglia]

...just re-read your earlier post. In case you're pondering what I meant about the location of the sear springs, they rest underneath (on top of if you're looking into the bottom of the receiver) the hammers and are held in place by the threaded pins installed toward the center of the receiver.

Rear leaf rests on hammer, front leaf rests on mainspring...shorter leaf to the rear.

[DMason]

We were typing at the same time... My post shows above your post!

Another note that I keep meaning to mention. I indicated earlier that the main springs in your photos look different than what my Lewis has. I will post a picture tomorrow for you to view. In short, my mainsprings have no 'loop' for the strain screw to slide through, as it seems your's do. Mine are a true 'V', no loop, the strain screw rides over the lower and upper part of the V. I wonder if my mainsprings are original, maybe I should be looking for replacements?

[alcaviglia]

To redoing the case colors, warping could definitely be an issue. If you have the capability, or know someone who does (local machinist will do), machine a block to keep that from happening. If that's the case, I say go for it. Do you have a furnace/kiln that can hold an accurate temperature?

My two cents on bluing: I would rather keep the receiver polished as you have it, than rust blue it. The Lewis that I worked on had been painted back in the 50's or 60's with lead paint. That was a pain in the rear to remove and was not degreased properly back when it was done. The owner didn't want a restoration, only a repair and refinish/checkering on the wood. He wanted the shotgun to have a rust patina to it (which I'm not a big fan of), and given the light but noticeable pitting, I selected a basic antiquing process to recreate the patina. It holds up well, is virtually impossible to screw up, hides quite a few imperfections, protects well, and can look halfway decent by matching the heads of the pins to that color (a little torch-bluing). Your receiver looks nearly, if not entirely, absent of pitting. If it comes down to bluing or polished, I would leave mine polished.

I'm interested to get a look at those mainsprings and am unsure if there were changes to the springs back then. I don't really see a drawback to the design - if they work. However, I wonder how the strain pins would have any impact on the compression of the springs. They wouldn't then prevent the springs from rocking into the trigger plate, nor would they keep the springs from torqueing, at all. As previously noted, it is pretty snug inside the receiver so I doubt it will affect anything.

I'll have to go back and check the earlier posts, but didn't you mention that you had some bent pins on this gun?

[alcaviglia]

Originally Posted by Dan Mason

Alcaviglia,

...I am also worried that I am putting too much pressure on the forward screw that holds the V spring down at the narrow part of the "V". I think it (they) are starting to bend slightly as I try to push down on the wide part of the spring(s)...

Here we go.

[alcaviglia]

Dan,

I'm sure taking a look at the mainsprings will shed some light on this either way, but here's a thought on why your hammers were not cocking in the first place. If the forward leaves of the sear springs are resting on the mainspring strain pins as opposed to the bend in the mainsprings themselves, there may not be sufficient force on the sears. This would prevent the sears from consistently engaging the hammers, so all the cocking bar would be doing is moving the hammers rearward and letting them down again as you close the gun. Needless to say, if/when the sears do catch in this scenario, they could easily disengage from the hammers if the gun is dropped or struck hard enough: discharging the firearm.

If you can, please upload some pictures of the mainsprings.

Additionally, a check to see if the configuration that you are describing has any impact on the hammer position is as follows, but in no way proves that the springs you're describing are wrong:

With the firing pins, return springs, and retaining screws (including your replacement screw) properly installed, install your mainsprings as they were when you disassembled the gun (strain pins, and all). Then seat the hammers. With the hammers at rest (so do not install cocking bar, sear springs, or sears), there should not be any protrusion of the firing pins. The design of the mainspring/hammer engagement should "settle" the hammers in a position to the rear of entirely forward (if that makes any sense). In other words, they rebound a bit. From that position, you can press the hammers forward to make the pins protrude, but when you let go they should come back a bit. Taking note of how this goes with your mainsprings may offer a clue.

[DMason]

Al, A few more pics of the receiver. Let me know what you think about the mainsprings.