Loading the Short Ten by Pete Lester - Page 8

Woodcock survey · 11-23-2019, 08:17 AM

I will try to post a photo later , but I am challenged in that area. Start with a 3/4 in. dowel , drill 3-4 small holes at about a 15 degree angle and drive an exacto blade into it at approx 2-1/2 in. up from the base adjust with spacers and thumb tacks in butt if needed. There is a thread here some where explaining it. My first one was made by Scott Kitteredge and I have made them for 20 and 410. I will look for that thread and maybe Scott or Pete Lester will have some information.

Woodcock survey · 11-23-2019, 08:41 AM

Pat go to youtube and ask for loading the short 10, I believe it is by Pete Lester. On the bench you will see the tool I describe. Hope this helps.

Woodcock survey · 11-23-2019, 09:12 AM

The blade is driven into the dowel and held by friction,as you insert the tool turn it as it reaches the mouth of the shell and as it begins to cut push down and continue to turn. It is so simple and easy it defies description. The blade is narrow and at angled to a point it is a number 11. 3 or 4 small holes drilled into dowel and the blade is driven in with a hammer, gently to a depth about half way through the dowel.

Patrick Barrett · 11-26-2019, 08:25 AM

Hmmmm a few questions What are the small holes supposed to do.....?Does it start a location on the dowel where the blade is supposed to go?. I guess Im not clear on how you gently drive the blade in with a hammer and not damage the blade....you see? is it a #11 exacto blade?

Woodcock survey · 11-26-2019, 10:46 AM

Yes it is a #11 Exacto blade I used. The holes are a starter for the blade. Please go to the first post on this thread and watch the video Pete Lester made and you will see him use and explain it. I was mistaken in saying 3/4 dowel , it is 5/8. Pete will also explain how to make an adjuster for different makes of hulls.

Paul Harm · 11-27-2019, 12:32 PM

Get a dowel that fits snug and I put a single edge razor blade in at about a 15 degree angle. The blade needs to be tapped in with a hammer. First a thin knife blade is tapped in for a little bit to get the razor started. I also drill a hole in the end and install a machine screw, say a 8-32. This can be screwed in or out to fine tune the cut. If your shell is 3.5 and you want 2 5/8, put the dowel in the shell, with a pencil make a mark on the dowel, pull it out and subtract 7/8" and make another mark. This is where the blade sits about 15 degrees from perpendicular. I put the shell in my left hand and the dowel, with my thumb on the razor, in my right hand. I've found by slightly bending the top part of the razor [ the safe side ] I can make the razor feed in for a slow cut or a fast one. You may ruin a shell or two getting the feel for everything. A cheap table model wood cutting band saw from harbor Freight would work good, be quicker, and you could forget about playing around with dowels and blades.
Ron, I never had any luck with nitro powders in the Magtechs. I believe it's because of the lack of a crimp. My Accurate gunpowder handbook has a article about the importance of a good crimp and how it effects pressures. Before I sold 300 Magtechs I tried 28grs of PB - my normal load was around 18 to 20grs. I was still getting bloopers. I believe Charlie has had some success with them. God luck to all. Paul

Paul Harm · 11-27-2019, 01:03 PM

Ron, I've never had any luck with nitro powders in the Magtechs. My Accurate powder reloading booklet has an article about the importance of crimps and how they effect pressure. There isn't much resistance by gluing OS cards in compared to a fold or roll crimp. I sold 300 Magtechs after trying to get good loads with smokeless. I believe Charlie has had some success with them. Let us know if you find a way to use them with nitro powders.

Ron Scott · 12-01-2019, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Harm

Ron, I've never had any luck with nitro powders in the Magtechs. My Accurate powder reloading booklet has an article about the importance of crimps and how they effect pressure. There isn't much resistance by gluing OS cards in compared to a fold or roll crimp. I sold 300 Magtechs after trying to get good loads with smokeless. I believe Charlie has had some success with them. Let us know if you find a way to use them with nitro powders.

Thanks for the help, Paul. What year/issue is you accurate arms reloading booklet? I'd like to read the article. Your explanation regarding crimp pressure makes sense and might explain my results: I loaded and fired 10 new brass hulls (ordered 50 from Track of the Wolf -- "The head is engraved Parker Brothers Meriden, Conn. - 10 gauge A markings for a historic appearance.") with 34 grains of Longshot, and 1 5/8 oz #7 1/2 chill. This load is listed on the Short Ten Reloading Spreadsheet showing only 5700 psi. Of the 10 that I shot 3 cracked.

I don't believe the fault is the hull as I have used these same brass hulls for repeated reloadings and firings of pretty heavy loads of black powder and have never cracked a hull.

The shots that I fired all felt and sounded normal -- and actually seemed mild compared to the black powder loads. You would think that the fact that "there isn't much resistance by gluing OS cards in compared to a fold or roll crimp" that the pressure would be even lower than 5700 psi. So it's a mystery to me why the hulls cracked -- perhaps without sufficient resistance the pressure curve moved higher up the case? Regardless of the cause I will not be wasting any more hulls at $7.50 per using them with that load again. It would be interesting to know if anyone else has had a similar experience.

At this point I think I will save the brass hulls for vintage shoots and black powder loads (which are a lot of fun to shoot) and buy a few boxes of RSTs for hunting.

Maybe at some point I'll experiment with trying to increase the resistance of the over shot wad by using a thicker card more solidly glued in. But's hard to believe a crimped plastic hull offers much resistance in comparison to the force required to push the entire payload from a dead stop to 1100 fps... Maybe the article you mentioned has an explanation?

Thanks again -- I'll share anything else I learn,

Ron

Paul Harm · 12-02-2019, 01:35 PM

Man, that's a shame, those cost a little bit. Those are made by Rockey Mountain and are turned from a solid piece of brass, so they're thicker than the Magtecks. They have a smaller internal volume, so that may contribute to you being able to use smokeless powders. Maybe the end was too small a diameter and allowed the shell to expand too much and crack. That would just be my guess. I found a thicker OS card gave me a hole in the pattern. Other guys had more luck. That was a 2005 Accurate reloaders guide. Here's a brief synopsis of the article:
The fundamental difference between a shotshell cartridge and a center fire rifle cartridge is that the efficiency of the shotshell is 100% dependent on the round itself. All the "resistive forces" must be generated within the confines of the round itself, no assistance is provided by the gun [the bullet meeting the rifling ]. The maximum peak pressure is reached long before the base of the shot/wad assembly has left the case. This means the efficiency re ignition and subsequent increase in pressure, is totally controlled by the integral configuration and assembly of the round itself. These constitute the main inertial mass [ shot mass ], the initial internal volume [ wad design ], the collapsing of the wad, plus the displacing of the internal assembly and the unfolding of the crimp. Crimping is certainly is one of the most importantly aspects of the shotshell reloading process. The influence of the crimp on ballistics is often ignored and assumed to be of lesser importance that primers and wad make/design. The fact is that the effect of the crimp-strength can totally overshadow the influence of other components and parameters. this is controlled by the following:

crimp depth

condition of the case

wad

wad tension

It is always wise to use a strong a crimp as possible.
Back to me - usually a roll crimp has lower pressures and I would think a card just glued in wouldn't have hardly any resistive forces so pressures would be even lower - too low. Black powder is a different animal so we can do things with it that doesn't work so well with nitro powders. The military has had all brass shells but they're roll crimped. I don't think they are worried about reloading them.

Ron Scott · 12-02-2019, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Harm

Maybe the end was too small a diameter and allowed the shell to expand too much and crack.

Thank you for taking the time to retype all that info -- I appreciate it.

Regarding your theory about the end being too small. I don't think so because, 1) the black powder loads didn't crack the hull & 2) the overshot wad in both cases fit perfectly. But wow that I think about it, I used a different lot of brass hulls for the smokeless loads. Maybe they are harder than the first ones -- I could try annealing them. It would be worth testing because the load otherwise worked great. I'll keep you posted.