Hemingway's guns

[Grantham Forester]

Originally Posted by George Lander

Getting back to the subject of Hemingway and his guns,I have also been reading the book and as the book makes clear, Papa was a hunter and a shooter and not a collector. His guns, for the most part, were well used and well cared for. I did not find a reference to his owning a Parker although one picture in the book with him in the company of Gary Cooper it shows Cooper carrying a Parker (which could have been Papa's)

A great movie to watch is "Islands in the Stream" in which George C. Scott plays the role of Papa, although with a different name. David Hemmings plays the rummey friend who won a BAR in a poker game and uses it to kill a shark that was after one of Papa's sons.

Best Regards, George

--The same eulogy that Ernest Hemingway wrote in 1939 for his Idaho friend, who died in a duck hunting accident near Silver Creek, could as well have been his own in 1961. I was still in HS when he took his own life, we had read both "Big Two-Hearted River" and "The Snows of Kilamanjaro" as part of English Lit. back then. He had a flair for picking great titles. I was editor of our HS paper my Senior year, and always respected his solid background as a reporter and a correspondent.

I have an older Model 12, as apparently he did, and this excerpt from the book "The Idaho Hemingway" by Tillie Arnold speaks to his views on guns as working tools for a hunter: "Ernest and Lloyd were opening up the gun cases, removing guns, and I saw Lloyd (Tillie Arnold's husband) pick up a Winchester Model 12 pump shotgun. As he did so, he told Ernest that he also owned one. But I could see that Lloyd was shocked when he opening and closed the breech.--' It rattled, it's action was loose, oil sprayed out of the action and the stock had a major split, so loose it almost fell off. ' Ernest noticed Lloyd's attention to the loose stock and said ' I'll bet your Model 12 isn't as beat up as mine. ' 'Ernest, this stock is a bit loose. ' Ernest replied ' Yeah, we gotta get her tightened up, Chief-- I can't operate without this old stopper."

This was in September 1939, a month or so before the tragic death of Gene Van Guilder. Going back to the Model 12 from an earlier 1933 occurance, the fire at the Pfeiffer (Hemingway's second wife, Pauline Pfeiffer, heiress to the Richard Hudnut cosmetics wealth) farm in Piggott, AK-- and from his later published book about Africa- "True at First Light"-- pg. 240: "I had the old, well-loved, once burnt up, three times restocked, worn smooth old Winchester model 12 pump gun that was faster than a snake, and was from 35 years of us being together (1928-1953), almost as close a friend and companion with secrets shared and triumphs and disasters not revealed as the other friends a man has all his life"--

I find this quote reveals both Hemingway's credo that "Guns are to shoot, and to shoot with well" and also the same affection that a man would have with his hunting dogs.

[Grantham Forester]

Originally Posted by Kensal Rise

Steve:
Whoever Hemingway "was," he was certainly a man of importance, as this thread testifies. And a damn good writer. Ruark, on the other hand, fancied himself a bush league Hemingway -- but never quite lived up to Papa's towering image.
Nonetheless, warm gin is better than no gin. Cup composition aside.

Best, Kensal

Well said indeed. Two somewhat "obscure" books written about Ernest Hemingway that are quite telling, IMO anyway: "Hemingway in Cuba" by Hilary Hemingway and Carlene Brennen and "The True Gen" by Denis Brian. Strange that in mentioning Robert Ruark, who died in Spain in 1965, no body has mentioned his "The Old Man and The Boy" series for Field and Stream. Top shelf work there. And his "The Honey Badger" has Alex Barr as Ruark with his hand-to-mouth existence as a newspaperman, as much as Hemingway's "Islands In The Stream" has Thomas Hudson (painter) as Hemingway's alter ego.

[Grantham Forester]

Originally Posted by Rick Losey

yeah or sumpthun

Alice B. Toklas and Pauline Pfeiffer's sister Jinny were both Lesbians, back at the time when homosexuality was a dark dirty secret. There is a theory that one reason for Hemingway's youngest son, Gregory (aka- GiGi) turned out so "mixed up' about his sexual orientation is the great amount of time he spent in the care of Jinny Pfeiffer, while his mother and father were away on jaunts. Unlike Pauline's super wealthy uncle Gustavus Pfeiffer, who favored Ernest and Pauline with funds to: Take their first trip to Africa-- order the Wheeler fishing boat named the Pilar, purchased several new cars and also bought the house in Key West on Whitehead street for them, Jinny hated Ernest and did apparently try to be a divisive force in their troubled marriage. The best read on this is Bernice Kert's novel "The Hemingway Women", she did her research very well indeed.

[David Lien]

Grantham: A mile east of Sun Valley is where the Ernest Hemingway Memorial is located. The inscription reads

Best of all he loved the fall
The leaves yellow on the cottonwoods
Leaves floating on the trout streams
and above the hills
The high blue windless skies
now he will be part of them forever.


This is part of the eulogy that Ernest Hemingway gave for Gen Van Guilder in 1939.
Grantham I did enjoy your posts. Thank you

PS I will post up some more Idaho imformation later when I get "un busy".Wife Mary has a "job jar " with my name on it. and the fish are Bitin
David Lien

[Andy Kelley]

I can see the headlines now PGCA IS COVER GROUP FOR LITERARY SCHOLARS ....in my humble opinion if you want to see photos of Hemingway with shotguns and not be burdened by wading through photos of Africa ,then you can't go wrong with High On The Wild With Hemingway which does a nice job of illustrating the bird shooting in Sun Valley when it was not developed.Some members might cringe since it shows him in many photos with a Browning Superposed. I have only been a member for four days but I think my mind is on overload.

[Grantham Forester]

Originally Posted by Andy Kelley

I can see the headlines now PGCA IS COVER GROUP FOR LITERARY SCHOLARS ....in my humble opinion if you want to see photos of Hemingway with shotguns and not be burdened by wading through photos of Africa ,then you can't go wrong with High On The Wild With Hemingway which does a nice job of illustrating the bird shooting in Sun Valley when it was not developed.Some members might cringe since it shows him in many photos with a Browning Superposed. I have only been a member for four days but I think my mind is on overload.

-- My wife grew up in Emmett- about 2 hours drive from the Sun Valley complex. I have read the book "High On The Wild With Hemingway", and like the Tillie Arnold book, it shows Hemingway loving the area, because he- and stars like his pal Gary Cooper were not given special treatment, they we accepted as regular folks and avid sportsmen. One telling story about Hemingway- they enjoyed great pheasant, duck and dove hunting on area farms and ranches. On one, the farmer and his family had been hard hit by the Depression and the plague of jackrabbits that devoured his crops- so not only did Hemingway organized great rabbit hunts, he also paid to have the farmer's truck overhauled by a local mechanic- his way, I suppose, of saying "Thanks" for letting us hunt on your property. Possibly in tribute to his new-founded love of Idaho, Hemingway named one of his many cats "Boise"!!

[Steve McCarty]

Originally Posted by Andy Kelley

I don't think Hemingway was ever happy starting with a very troubled childhood including being dressed like a girl and watching his mother ( a repressed and somewhat closeted lesbian ) berate his father on a daily basis. A good case could also be made that he suffered from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder as a result of his combat wounding in Italy. Like many angry vets he sought solace in booze, women and brawling in a primitive attempt to deal with the devils inside. Man, could that write.

All young boys were dressed as girls in the early 20th Century, or Little Lord Fantleroy (sp) which may have been worse.

I doubt that Ernie suffered from PTS, nor do I think as many people suffer from it today as some think. We all jumped when a car backfired and had nightmares, but those things lesson to tolerable levels. Ernie loved telling stories of his wounds and would give lectures holding up his bloody trousers. If he had been uncomfortable with the experience he would have kept mum.

Indeed Hem's family suffered from mental problems, probably depression, maybe bi-polar. Mother a lesbian? I doubt it. Father hen pecked? I don't know. I think Ernie enjoyed his childhood, the hunting, fishing/camping and he said he loved his dad. Ernie was not a closet gay, but some to this day think he was.

Was he a vet finding solace in booze? Maybe, but there are many non-vets who do the same and in reality he did not experience much combat. A morter round did impact close buy, but only one and few experienced PTS unless they suffered through many hits over a prolonged period of time. Leslie Howard was seriously shell shocked after suffering near misses over an extended period of time, many did. One near miss? A piece of cake.

I do think, however; that at some point Ernie slipped into some form of insanity and it came on late in his life. I suspect after his two plane wrecks, but during his 20's through his early 50's he was pretty much in control and frankly having a wonderful time. Hem was always in love with Hem and he was insulted if others didn't follow his lead. This did not require insanity, but his ego was....well.......amazing. So is Obama's, is he nuts too?

Like Billy the Kid, Americans are somehow captivated by Hemingway, and I am one of them. When I find an article about Hem I read it with gusto. As for Billy the Kid? Just ask me.

[Steve McCarty]

Originally Posted by Grantham Forester

-- My wife grew up in Emmett- about 2 hours drive from the Sun Valley complex. I have read the book "High On The Wild With Hemingway", and like the Tillie Arnold book, it shows Hemingway loving the area, because he- and stars like his pal Gary Cooper were not given special treatment, they we accepted as regular folks and avid sportsmen.

Isn't it ironic, that what celebrities seek-celebrity, also drives them crazy and they try hard to avoid acclaim. I have never been to Ketchum, but I read that his home there was no great shakes and really a few slabs of concrete pushed up. Have you seen it? If so, what was your impression of the place?

Hem loved to shoot his Winchester and his Model 12 was loose as a goose and over oiled. He replaced the stock as least once and after it aged, and was shot, it spit out a fine mist of oil.

I have a friend who says that if he could come back, he'd like to come back as Sinatra. I'd rather be Hemingway....at least for his first 50 years or so.

BTW: If I could come back as anyone, I'd want to return as Ben Franklin, but I'd shoot more that he did.

[Steve McCarty]

Originally Posted by Andy Kelley

I can see the headlines now PGCA IS COVER GROUP FOR LITERARY SCHOLARS ....in my humble opinion if you want to see photos of Hemingway with shotguns and not be burdened by wading through photos of Africa ,then you can't go wrong with High On The Wild With Hemingway which does a nice job of illustrating the bird shooting in Sun Valley when it was not developed.Some members might cringe since it shows him in many photos with a Browning Superposed. I have only been a member for four days but I think my mind is on overload.

I bought an ancient, beat up Superposed just because Hem shot one, but didn't he also shoot that O/U Beretta a bunch too? The guns look similar.

Those Superposed used to be the cat's meow. I guess they have fallen from favor today. Is it their weight? Are they considered overly complex?

[Steve McCarty]

Originally Posted by Andy Kelley

I can see the headlines now PGCA IS COVER GROUP FOR LITERARY SCHOLARS ....in my humble opinion if you want to see photos of Hemingway with shotguns and not be burdened by wading through photos of Africa ,then you can't go wrong with High On The Wild With Hemingway which does a nice job of illustrating the bird shooting in Sun Valley when it was not developed.Some members might cringe since it shows him in many photos with a Browning Superposed. I have only been a member for four days but I think my mind is on overload.

CONGRATULATIONS Andy, I'll bet you have a ball. Good shooting too.