Sould it be illegal to hunt with 8 gauge?

[Opening Day]

Well said Forest and I totally agree

[Ray Masciarella]

The firearm technology point is new to this thread. No doubt Forrest is correct about advances in bows, muzzleloaders and shotguns. Folks are even shooting rifles at 600-1000yards tho that is not really new (ask the buffalo). I wonder if there are any studies to look at. I have noticed an yearly increase in the turkey, deer, hog populations around here. It doesn't appear the advances in weapons have hurt them them much. There are more then ever.
However, I still don't think it has anything to do with fair chase if they can be shot with a rifle anyway. A lot fairer to shoot at a deer with an 8 ga then my Weatherby .300 mag. I think sportsmen can decide for themselves what challenges they want. It's why I stopped long ago hunting deer with a .300 mag-didn't find much to it.

[Double Trouble]

Very true, Ray !

I will never look down on someone who hunts deer with a scoped rifle (hell, my pre-64 M. 70 was my best friend for many seasons !), but now, I personally enjoy hunting with vintage guns. (My goal this year is to take a deer with my (ca. 1830) model 1816 Springfield musket (69 cal smoothbore, converted to percussion during the 1850's). The gun's a beast ! Only two things need to be mastered to shoot her well: consistent "sight picture" (like an old Parker, she only has a front sight - no rear sight) and overcoming the HORRIBLY HEAVY trigger pull (apparently, flintlocks worked best with STOUT main springs).

Any deer within 50 yards will be mine !

[Ray Masciarella]

John, now that sounds like the way to go. I would't want to be a deer on the wrong side of a .69 cal. That has to pack more punch then the .300 mag-at least at 50 yards. Good luck!!!

[Milton Starr]

I wouldnt care if they made more mnodern 8 ga if that what it takes to start making them again so be it i say . i would love a benelli semi auto 8 ga .then a tradition sxs .they are wanting to ban lead nation wide already . so people who dont want to use high density ammo like 5-10$ per shell will need a good patterning steel shot shell that hills hard . Like a 10 ga 3.5 with 1 5/8 bbb or t shot for turkey,coyote , other game .i know 8 ga ammo is probably about 15-20$ per shell but im speaking as if they made a modern 8 ga i doubt it would be much more than 10 ga ammo.you can fit many steel large pellets in modern shotguns shells like bbb,T, and F shot to get a good pattern like it would if you loaded it in a 8 ga less cripples i would think .

[Ray Masciarella]

I am pleased to advise that The Florida Admin Code only prohibits the use of shotguns larger then 10 ga for taking migratory birds. A little hard to figure out cause the Reg Handbook doesn't clearly address the issue. You have to dig into the code itself to find a clear answer.
Anyway, now I need to find a 8 ga to turkey hunt with. Of course, now that I'm looking for one they are nowhere to be found. Pugilisi had some on his site but they disappeared over night! Julia had two but I didn't want to take the chance they weren't shootable. Anyway, I'll find one sooner or later.
Question: Is there anything I should look for out of the ordinary? ie is the min barrel thickness different? I have to find one I can shoot. Any tips would be helpful. Thanks, Ray

[TARNATION !!!]

Ray: Session 3 Lots 976 and 977 at little John's coming up. The underlifter is pretty and the hammerless looks great. Both in 8 gauge. Wonderful looking guns. Opening bidl already set at 3+K$$ Where it goes, who knows

Direct link to the page.

They also have .410 16 and 12's

Enjoy.

Jack

[MarketHunter]

I've pretty well sworn off posting on the forum but will chime in on this one.

To Forrest:

The USA isn't the whole world despite what people seem to believe. The gunners in the UK are perfectly within their rights to use shotguns larger than 10 gauge for waterfowling, puntgunning is even still legal there. The waterfowl populations on that side of the water have seemed to survive just fine even with these guns firing a them for the past 200 years.

The ammunition is expensive, the guns are expensive, they're heavy and hard to use. Most guys use plastic automatics for waterfowling there just like they do here. If big guns were made legal again in the US (which they never will be) there would be a few people who would take them up but not very many.

There was a time before steel shot when even the magnum 10 gauge was almost a thing of the past. I knew hundreds of goose hunters growing up in Southern Illinois and the guys who regularly used 10 gauge guns could be counted on one hand. They did gain some popularity again when steel came in but have fallen off in use somewhat since the introduction of the 3 1/2 inch 12 gauge.

Large bore shotguns aren't a threat to fair chase, the gun companies wouldn't all jump on the band wagon and start making them or the ammo to use in them. Think about this, when lead was legal and they were at their most effective, how many gun companies produced a 10 gauge gun after WWII? Other than the Spanish doubles and O/U's that were imported, I can only think of one, the Ithaca Mag 10. If everybody wanted/wants to shoot big bore shotguns why weren't they more popular?

And as far as somebody working up a gun that could throw a 90% pattern at 80 yards, how many guys do you know who could make a gun like that work for them? Long range shooting is for the specialist. I'm as avid a waterfowler as I know and even I with my magnum 10 gauge won't hardly take a shot outside 50 yards because I know I can't hit the birds that far away. There aren't but a handful of men in the US who could use a gun like that to it's full effect. Even if somebody made it what threat would it really be?

Anyway, that's my 2 cents, I'm back into my non posting mode.


Destry

[Hammer Fan]

Originally Posted by Destry L. Hoffard

I've pretty well sworn off posting on the forum but will chime in on this one.

To Forrest:



The USA isn't the whole world despite what people seem to believe. The gunners in the UK are perfectly within their rights to use shotguns larger than 10 gauge for waterfowling, puntgunning is even still legal there. The waterfowl populations on that side of the water have seemed to survive just fine even with these guns firing a them for the past 200 years.



Destry

So what's your point...we should legalize punt guns in the U.S. as well? Comparing the game populations, hunting culture, gun usage, between the US and the UK is like comparing apples and oranges. Gun ownership, and hunting in general, is much more exclusive in the UK, and their laws have evolved around their own unique situation.

As far as why the 10 gauge hasn't been extremely popular in the U.S since WWII has nothing to do with how effective/ineffective it was as a sporting arm. The 10 gauge (or larger gauges) have in the past been looked at as strictly waterfowl guns. Waterfowl populations took serious downturns during the decades following WWII. To understand why this is important to the fall in popularity of large bore shotguns, you have to understand the average American hunter during that time period. Hunting is a rural activity, and for most of America's history, hunting was done mostly by the rural population. Most people without money to burn could only afford to buy one gun to fill their needs. Which in most cases was a 12 gauge (hence the premium we Parker collectors pay for guns larger or smaller than 12 gauge). The 10 gauge was always a more effective waterfowl gun than a 12, but most people could only afford one gun, especially when waterfowl hunting started to decline. Anyone who has patterned a similar load through a 12 and 10, knows that the 10 will generally throw a better pattern.

Yes, the 3 1/2" 12 gauge almost put an end to new development of the 10 gauge (although Remington is now offering a new 10). But it has nothing to do with how inherently unpopular the 10 gauge is. The biggest obstacle to new development on the 10 gauge is the SAAMI regulation limiting ammunition to 11,000 PSI. When the 3 1/2" 12 gauge was introduced, this limit was raised to 14,000 PSI for the 12 gauge. This was requested mostly by shotgun manufactures who wanted to sell their new Magnum shotguns!

A modern 8 gauge represents something essentially new to the hunting world. Turkey hunting has seen a huge increase over the past couple decades. And yes, using a modern 8 gauge that can throw a 90% pattern at 80 yards of #6 tungsten shot, would be a highly effective turkey load, and is not something many people would consider fair chase in a shotgun only season.

My whole point is that if there is a dollar to be made, a shotgun manufacturer will develop a new 8 gauge to satisfy those with "Magnumitis", if the bans are lifted, especially if the SAAMI limitations are raised in proportion to the gauge. My fear is it would lead to controversial hunting situations that we can not predict right now, and harm the sport in general. I just don't understand why this is even being brought up as an issue, but I guess I've never been accused of being the sharpest knife in the drawer.

[Ray Masciarella]

Jack: Thanks. I did see them the other day. Barrels cut on hammer gun. Too bad cause it looks like a nice gun. Not many photos of the other. Says pitted. 2 Frame? Doesn't sound right. Hard to buy at auction cause you can't really tell what your getting. I'll have to keep looking.

Destry: Amen!