Remington DEO today

[Phil C]

Thanks guys I feel fortunate that I was able to get this stock blank from a friend. it's been sitting on a shelf for 15 years waiting for a special gun.

[todd allen]

A very worthy project, for sure!
It's all lost in the annals of family history now, but the first SxS shotguns that I had memories of, were a couple of Remingtons on the family farm.

[Researcher]

Remington Arms Co. stamped the actual pellet counts of their test patterns on the rear barrel lug of their Model 1889 hammer doubles and their Model 1894 and 1900 hammerless doubles. If the number is three digits, that is the count, if the number is two digits a leading 3 is implied. From surviving hang-tags we know the standard load they used to target 12-gauge guns was 1 1/4 ounces of #8 going 511 pellets to the load. Looks like 300 for the right barrel and 343 for the left barrel -- 300/511 = 58.7 % right and 343/511 = 67.1 % left.

From surviving Remington Arms Co. hang tags we know the load they were using in 1901 was Load No. 8 in the UMC SMOKELESS shell --





Later Remington Arms Co. hang tags show 12-gauge guns being targeted with UMC NITRO CLUB shells Load No. X8 with 24 grains of Infallible powder.

All the above being said, I wonder if that 7 next to the 2 7/8 on the left barrel might indicate this gun was targeted with No. 7 shot?



Could the dot below the 7 mean No. 7 1/2 shot? DEO-Grade 135127, sold a while back by Julia's, has its hang tag with it which had the No. 8 Chilled Shot typed over with 7 1/2 and the barrel lug with the pellet counts has a 7. stamped on it? Lots of things to speculate about on these made to order Remington Hammerless Doubles.

[Duckman]

Phil, A DEO 1894 Remington is a very special gun. No two are alike. In fact even the C grades are pretty much individual.
To give you an idea of how scarce they are consider that several years ago I stopped by to visit Charlie Semmer to get his opinion on my Grandfathers CEO. He told me that my gun made 81 C grades he could verify. His estimate was there were probably only 300 or so C grades made. The C grades and above were rather custom guns according to Charlie. You D grade is certainly much rarer than a C. I bought be of his books while at his house and would urge you to find one. He was a very nice man. Your gun deserves to be brought back to its former glory. Peter C

[Phil C]

Thanks Dave for the information. Looking forward to getting this gun home and getting the restoration process started.
Does anyone know of articles written possibly for the DoubleGun Journel on graded 1894 Remington's?

[Cold Spring]

Phil, what a great 1894 and so worthy of a restock. Nice catch!

Originally Posted by Dave Noreen

..... According to surviving hang-tags I've seen, Remington Arms Co. 12-gauge doubles were made for 2 5/8 inch shells.....

So, production guns were made for 2-5/8" shells. Good solid information. I wonder, did Remington follow that "practice" we're told about, that chambers were held 1/8" short for the cartridge? Said another way, do 12 gauge Remington SxS chambers intended for 2-5/8" shells actually measure about 2-1/2" long? Or are they full length at 2-5/8" long? And if not short-chambered, why didn't the Company follow that practice that's been broadly interpreted from tidbits of period evidence?

This gun is stamped 2-7/8 and one of the posts says the chambers measure 2-7/8. A similar question, was it made for the period 2-7/8" shells or period 3-inch shells?

[Researcher]

FWIW four of the five 12-gauge Remington Hammerless Double Barrel Shotguns in my collection have chambers that measure 2 5/8 inch. My FE-Grade Trap Gun has chambers that measure 2 3/4 inch but I suspect they may have been lengthened. It belonged to an old Pennsylvania Pigeon shooter and has a beavertail forearm and the choke of the left barrel was, I suspect, opened to .018".

My rather hap hazard table of observed high grade Remingtons has 18 D quality hammerless doubles on it. The nearest to this gun in question was 121359 with a straight grip stock which was for sale by the Cabelas in Lacey, Washington, a few years back. My note says "butt extension."

Phil,

Charles Semmer's article in The Double Gun Journal, Volume Twelve, Issue 3, page 143, about restocking a straight gripped DE-Grade with a horribly broken stock might be of interest to you.

Dave

[Cold Spring]

Thank you Dave. Now we know that 4 unmolested Remington 12 gauge hammerless guns that were made for 2-5/8" shells, have chambers that measure 2-5/8" long. So why are Parker and Fox the only American gun makers I remember hearing about, that seemingly followed that "practice" of cutting 12 gauge chambers @ 2-5/8" long for 2-3/4" shells?

Food for thought gents.

[Researcher]

I "wasted" the better part of Monday going through all my notes, slips of paper, pictures on three different computers, etc. and produced a new consolidated table of the engraved Remington hammerless doubles I've observed. I have 21 E quality and 18 D quality, plus in The Double Gun Journal, Volume Eleven, Issue 4, page 141, Charles mentioned three sets of Krupp barrels or Krupp barrel guns of D quality 140667, 140670 and 140672. Other then those, I don't have anything recorded in the 140xxx and 141xxx range?

I believe Charles was up around 31 each recorded in D and E qualities.

[Phil C]

Dave,
Thank you for all of the Historical data you archive on vintage guns and ammunition. You are a wealth of knowledge.
I had no idea how fortunate I was to acquire my new Remington DEO until you as well as others unselfishly shared your knowledge.
I am really excited about getting this gun back to its former glory, and hopefully will be able to get more history on this gun.
I know so far that the owner ( seller) in his 80's received this gun on his 14th birthday. It was given to him by his grandfather whom was a doctor and purchased it used from another Doctor in their home town for the occasion.