Parker 13 gauge?

[Jack Hamner]

Originally Posted by Dave Purnell

"The Parker Story" states in Vol II, page 524, first column, that a 12b brass shell measures 0.765" at it's base. This is exactly five thousanths less than the chamber opening of 0.770. The small difference is for fit, to insert and remove the shell. The bore sizes are 12ga.

Thanks, Dave for this valuable information. So the figures Mr. J. arrived at are within the tolerances for a 12b identification on the gun?

(.765-.770 Parker Story)
(.770-.761 Measured readings)

And one final rookie question--Would the 30 1/4" barrels have been something pretty commonly found on the 12b gun?

[Smoothebore]

Originally Posted by Jack Hamner

Thanks, Dave for this valuable information. So the figures Mr. J. arrived at are within the tolerances for a 12b identification on the gun?

(.765-.770 Parker Story)
(.770-.761 Measured readings)

I would think 12b. There is no other chamber size close.

[Jack Hamner]

Originally Posted by Dave Purnell

I would think 12b. There is no other chamber size close.

Thanks, Dave.......Case closed, thanks to you and many others. What a great bunch of people on this forum!

[Richard B. Hoover]

Jack,

You need to get measurements of the internal diameter of bores of the barrels away from the muzzle and the chambers. If the gun is a 13 gauge, then the bore diameter will be between 0.702" and 0.719". The muzzle diameter is not suitable because even very early Parker's had constricted choke bores. The chambers are not suitable because the gauge size of a shotgun is defined based on bore diameter. As T. D. S. and Capt. J. A. Purdey in their wonderful 1936 book "The Shotgun" explain on pg. 141---"The gauge division 12/1 includes any bore of diameter .730 to .740 inclusive; and the gauge division 12 any bore of diameter from .729 to .720. If the diameter is .740 the gun is not a 12-bore but it's gauge size is 11, and the gun is proved as an 11 bore."

They go on to say: ,"The gauge size of barrel is always taken at a point 9" from the breech end."

If I can be of any help, please let me know. If you have captured a 13 gauge, it would be a great find indeed.

Richard B. Hoover

[Richard B. Hoover]

Jack,

If you have not yet been able to measure the bores, give me a call at 256-337-4082 and I will try to help. I have all equipment to measure the bores and chambers of any Parker barrel to a precision of 0.0001".

Richard

[Jack Hamner]

Originally Posted by Richard B. Hoover

Jack,

If you have not yet been able to measure the bores, give me a call at 256-337-4082 and I will try to help. I have all equipment to measure the bores and chambers of any Parker barrel to a precision of 0.0001".

Richard

Richard,
I just got around to looking at the forum again and saw your two posts. I would like to thank you so much for this information. I'm not quite sure what all this means in terms of my gun. My friend got bore measurements of .730/.731 in the right barrel and .731/.732 in the left. These were taken from the end of the chambers(.770-.761) to the end of the barrels. So would this indicate a gauge other than 12? I'm confused again! Sounds like it's within the range of some sort of 12 gauge, though, if I'm reading the figures correctly.

[Richard B. Hoover]

Jack,

Bore dimensions of 0.730" to 0.732" are nearly spot on for the precise bore size (0.729") of the "perfect" 12 gauge. This is because 12 lead balls of precisely 0.729" diameter weighs exactly 1 pound.

The chamber dimensions of your gun are correct for the Parker 12B brass shot shell (0.765-0.770") but too small for the Parker 11B brass shell (0.790"-0 .800") or the Parker paper 12 or the Parker or UMC 12A brass shell (0.805"-0.810") which is the same as a modern 12 gauge shell. (Modern 12 gauge shells are too big to fit in your chambers. If you want to shoot your gun you will need to get some Parker or UMC 12B shells and hand load them.)

Hence your gun is a (very slightly over bored or very lightly pitted) 12 gauge Parker that was chambered for Parker 12B brass shells.

I am very much interested in hearing more about it. Could you please let me know the serial number, grade, what it says on the barrel rib? If you send me your e-mail address I will be happy to send you a copy of my Double Gun Journal article from the Winter 2008 Volume that contains all of these dimensions for the Parker chambers, bores, and shot shells.

Yours,

Richard B. Hoover

[Jack Hamner]

Originally Posted by Richard B. Hoover

Jack,

Bore dimensions of 0.730" to 0.732" are nearly spot on for the precise bore size (0.729") of the "perfect" 12 gauge. This is because 12 lead balls of precisely 0.729" diameter weighs exactly 1 pound.

The chamber dimensions of your gun are correct for the Parker 12B brass shot shell (0.765-0.770") but too small for the Parker 11B brass shell (0.790"-0 .800") or the Parker paper 12 or the Parker or UMC 12A brass shell (0.805"-0.810") which is the same as a modern 12 gauge shell. (Modern 12 gauge shells are too big to fit in your chambers. If you want to shoot your gun you will need to get some Parker or UMC 12B shells and hand load them.)

Hence your gun is a (very slightly over bored or very lightly pitted) 12 gauge Parker that was chambered for Parker 12B brass shells.

I am very much interested in hearing more about it. Could you please let me know the serial number, grade, what it says on the barrel rib? If you send me your e-mail address I will be happy to send you a copy of my Double Gun Journal article from the Winter 2008 Volume that contains all of these dimensions for the Parker chambers, bores, and shot shells.

Yours,

Richard B. Hoover

Thank you so much for this information, Richard! I can't figure out how to reload pictures from my album, but you can view them on my post of 2/22/13 under the title "14 gauge?". Thanks again very much! Jack.

[Bruce Day]

Parker chamber measurements are in TPS, p. 519, in the chapter " Barrels, Bores, Chambers and Frames". Answers to most Parker questions are found in TPS.

[Richard B. Hoover]

Bruce,

Thanks, those are good points. However, The chamber dimensions on page 519 of The Parker Story are good for later model Parkers in 8, 10, 12, etc. gauges only. This table does not cover all the chamber sizes found in the early under lifter guns. These were typically chambered for 10A or 10B, 11 paper or 11B brass, or 12 paper, 12A or 12B or extremely rarely for the 14A brass shells. Many of the early Parker 11-gauge guns were chambered for Parker or UMC brass 12A shells, which have the same dimensions as the modern 12 ga shell as shown on TPS pgs. 544-550. Some 11's were even chambered for 10A shells. Some of the underlifter 12-gauge guns were chambered for 12B brass shells, which can lead to confusion and the conclusion that these guns are 13 or 14 gauge (Just as was reported by Larry Baer for the Parker Prototype no. 06 in the Meriden Historical Society,which has perfect 12-bore barrels and was chambered for 2"long brass shells of diameter that can accept a modern 14 gauge shell.

Richard