Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Day
Parker appropriate 16 ga shells are made by Federal, Winchester , Remington , Fiocci , Herters and RST. I just bought two cases of recently made Winchester 1 oz loads.
On another note , I just ordered and received a case of Remington STS 12 ga and a case of Federal 12ga paper hull loads.
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This thread has really wandered around and at one point got off into the never ending recoil argument. However, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and decision, but I personally don't believe that most of the loads listed above are "Parker appropriate" (or LC Smith or Older Ithaca or Lefever or whatever).
Number 1, I agree that high recoil should be avoided due to fragile wood. However, a broken stock won't kill me. A blown up barrel may, or someone near me.
I own a bunch of shotguns old and new and have been intensely following the low pressure quest for 15 years or more. I have seen too many actual pressure tests of Lite style shells to believe that most of them are what I want to shoot. The problem is that while they strive for low recoil, they also make good and sure no one is going to complain about an autoloader, which makes up a huge part of their market, is going to malfunction. Most tests of Lite loads I have ever seen tend to be in the 9000 to 10000 range. I for one don't consider that at all appropiate for a 120 year old shotgun. The ultimate goal I have always seen has been to duplicate black powder loading. That number from a working standpoint is in the 6000 to 6500 range. A lot of people seem to use a rule of staying below 8500 or so but that causes me personal concern. I shoot RST's but feel they are the max I want. From my standpoint, 6000 is my number and all the loads I make have been tested to be in the 5000 to 6500 range. There are a lot of them published if you look.
I also shoot only an appropriate length shell for the gun. Data shows there is not a huge increase by shooting long shells in short chambers. However, it varies and there is no way to know for sure. Just last week I saw a test report of this and in a 5 shot string the increase measured between 300 and 1200 psi increase. If you decide to shoot a "Lite" load and it happens to be 9500 psi and the long shell happens to boost that particular round by 1200 then you are in the full SAMMI max range and totally ignoring the entire concept.
Some people argue that there is a difference between black powder and new loads because of burning rate, but Sherman Bell's seminal article on the subject I think pretty much put that to rest. He tested low pressure loads using fast burning powder vs black powder with the same peak pressure readings and measured at many points down the barrel. The pressure profile all along the barrel was essentially duplicated.
There was a lengthy thread on the new Remington Vintage shells recently. The asumption seemed to be through the entire thread that these would be a new answer to low pressure ammo supply, but they were expensive and couldn't be found. They actually stocked quite a few of these at a local large gun store, but shot selection of what they had was useless. I did research the shells, however, and found not one mention anywhere in the data that they were a bit lower than normal pressure. They seemed to be marketed for the pure nostalgia of the thing.
My solution is to load either 2" or 2-1/2" shells with square loads or better of shot and shoot for a load that has been tested at 5500 to 6500 psi. They will then interchange in all my old guns with no worry. With the new guns, I generally stick to factory rounds as a source of empties.
01-22-2022, 10:54 PM
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