Poll....who is hunting with small gauge for up-land birds?

[John Davis]

Yes, sub-gauges are fun to shoot and easy to carry. Yes, many of today's put and take quail preserves don't allow anything bigger than a 20 gauge. Why would you when you've either got to literally kick the bird up or send in a flushing dog to get something even close to a covey rise? And yes, sub-gauges seem to be the latest rage among collectors these day's.

But the fact remains that the 12 is and has been for the past 150 years the most popular gauge to shoot. It overtook and supplanted the 10 and it withstood the advent of all other smaller gauges. There is a reason that 99% of all guns used for trap are 12's. If you didn't have sub-gauge events in skeet and sporting clays, the same would be true for those disciplines as well. And with the opening day of dove season just around the corner, a vast majority of the guns you'll see in the field will be 12's.

So to be clear, I love a 16, 20 and 28 gauge as much as anyone. I enjoy shooting them in pursuit of most upland game. But if I'm going to travel a thousand miles to shoot wild birds in South Dakota, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas or anywhere else, I'm probably going to be shooting a 12 gauge.

[Battue]

Originally Posted by John Davis

Yes, sub-gauges are fun to shoot and easy to carry. Yes, many of today's put and take quail preserves don't allow anything bigger than a 20 gauge. Why would you when you've either got to literally kick the bird up or send in a flushing dog to get something even close to a covey rise? And yes, sub-gauges seem to be the latest rage among collectors these day's.

But the fact remains that the 12 is and has been for the past 150 years the most popular gauge to shoot. It overtook and supplanted the 10 and it withstood the advent of all other smaller gauges. There is a reason that 99% of all guns used for trap are 12's. If you didn't have sub-gauge events in skeet and sporting clays, the same would be true for those disciplines as well. And with the opening day of dove season just around the corner, a vast majority of the guns you'll see in the field will be 12's.

So to be clear, I love a 16, 20 and 28 gauge as much as anyone. I enjoy shooting them in pursuit of most upland game. But if I'm going to travel a thousand miles to shoot wild birds in South Dakota, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas or anywhere else, I'm probably going to be shooting a 12 gauge.

Hard to make that argument for skeet when the TOP skeet shooters are averaging .99% plus with the sub gauges....even with the .410..
International Olympic skeet is shot with a 24gram load and the averages didn't change when they dropped down from the 28gram load..

The target distance for skeet more frequently represents chances in the field.
For the most part it is one pointing ability that determines their success and not the gauge...

And, for those that are willing to pay the additional for TSS shot, any advantage the 12 had is gone. With TSS some are stoning Turkey’s at 40 yards with the 410.. it isn’t you Grandad’s uplands any more..

Trap is a different situation in that the distance is further, which gives an edge to the 12..

[John Davis]

In skeet "Twelve gauge events shall be open to all guns of 12 gauge or smaller, using shot loads not exceeding one and one-eighth ounces." Just curious as to how many top shooters choose to shoot a .410 in a 12 gauge event? Payload has a little something to do with it, whether you are on the line or in the field.

[Battue]

Originally Posted by John Davis

In skeet "Twelve gauge events shall be open to all guns of 12 gauge or smaller, using shot loads not exceeding one and one-eighth ounces." Just curious as to how many top shooters choose to shoot a .410 in a 12 gauge event? Payload has a little something to do with it, whether you are on the line or in the field.

Well none do, and curious or not you knew that, and you would choose the most extremes to make your point.

However, This NSSA Classification chart is reveling with what the great pointers can do with each gauge.

NSSA CLASSIFICATION TABLES
Revised & Effective April 22, 2014
OPEN INDIVIDUAL CLASSES
Class
12
20
28
.410

AAA*
.9850 & Over
.9825 & Over
.9800 & Over
.9650 & Over

So let’s take 12 to 28, and the difference is 0.005 in hit percentage in favor of the 12 between the two gauges in AAA Class. I guess I have to admit you win.

[24 grams]

Originally Posted by Harry Neil

Hard to make that argument for skeet when the TOP skeet shooters are averaging .99% plus with the sub gauges....even with the .410..
International Olympic skeet is shot with a 24gram load and the averages didn't change when they dropped down from the 28gram load..

The target distance for skeet more frequently represents chances in the field.
For the most part it is one pointing ability that determines their success and not the gauge...

And, for those that are willing to pay the additional for TSS shot, any advantage the 12 had is gone. With TSS some are stoning Turkey’s at 40 yards with the 410.. it isn’t you Grandad’s uplands any more..

Trap is a different situation in that the distance is further, which gives an edge to the 12..

Excellent point-counterpoint!

[John Davis]

Harry, no winners or losers here. And in all fairness, the original question was what's your favorite gauge for hunting upland game. So I'm guilty of getting a bit off track. "Favorite" implies a subjective response. Therefore, the answer is as varied as the number of folks responding and no one can be right or wrong.

My final answer to the original question is: Any gauge, as long as it's a Parker.

[OH Osthaus]

season must be getting close, the annual tribal questions begin to show as everyone gets anxious (BTW- the original post was innocent enough)


heck- Bert Spiller the poet laureate of upland hunting hunted grouse with a 10 gauge - must have been as good as 2 20's if he used one

but really, not a gentleman or a real bird hunter unless you agree with a post


i have an unusual suggestion - why don't we shoot whatever gun we shoot best and concentrate on being sportsman worthy of our game and our dogs

[Dean Romig]

Originally Posted by Rick Losey

Bert Spiller the poet laureate of upland hunting hunted grouse with a 10 gauge - must have been as good as 2 20's if he used one.

Spiller only used his Dad's 10 until he could buy a gun of his own which was a 12, then later a 16, (*) finally settling on a 20 gauge VHE that was found for him by his grouse hunting crony Gorham L. "Grampa Grouse" Cross.

(*) Spiller actually ordered a very fine 20 or 28 from a very prestigious American maker, though he never said who it was. But did say he ordered it to be extremely light, hence the barrels were very thin. While crossing a stream on an icy morning he slipped and both he and his little gun went ass over teakettle and were both submerged and the barrels of his pride and joy got severely dented.






.

[Battue]

2 16 Gauge Model 12's for nasty weather...you can't hurt them
2 16 Gauge Parkers
1 16/20 Gauge Parker Repro (The 20Gauge barrels killed one Grouse and then were put away) Not the case with the 16's
1 28 Gauge Ithaca 37 (Which is a sweet handling shotgun)
1 20 Gauge Perazzi....For the most part only used for Doves...


They all get shuffled around during a season...

[James L. Martin]

I love and hunt with all gauges , I never understood why it's more sporting to shoot 7/8 oz in a 20ga than in a 12ga. You can shoot 1oz in a 12ga ,16ga, 20ga and 28ga ,why is one more sporting than another? With that said I do more hunting with a 20ga, because they tend to weigh around 6 to 6 1/2 lbs which works best for me.