Best 20 G hull

[Tom Flanigan]

Anyway, pressure DOES NOT affect recoil velocity does. A simple way to prove it to yourself is to go to any reloading manual and choose two loads with similar ejecta weight and load one with a velocity under 1200fps and near max pressure, say 10,000psi. Then find a similar load going say 1250+fps with similar pressure. Then, and this is important, have a friend load your gun with the test rounds, different loads in each barrel then hand it to you with the action closed. You will of course have marked the rounds to identify them then all you have to do fire the gun twice and compare the recoil. Pressure stresses the metal and recoil hammers the face of the stock and you.[/QUOTE]

That would be an interesting test to perform and might prove the point, but probably not conclusively. Pure scientific data would prove one way or the other, but I would be willing to accept the results of your experiment. At this point, I tend to lean toward your explanation. It sounds solid.

[Gary Laudermilch]

Since this thread has drifted away from the original question, to which I have added, I'll add a bit more.

An old friend of mine, William C. Davis Jr., now deceased, was a world renowned ballistics expert. He was a neighbor of mine and good grouse hunting buddy. He worked for Colt for over 30 years and in that capacity was instrumental in implementing the changes to the original M16 design to make it more reliable. This was only one of his major accomplishments while at Colt. He was a technical writer for the NRA with numerous articles in the American Rifleman. After retirement from Colt he had a full blown ballistics lab about 2 miles from my house. There was so much electronic gadgetry and pressure barrels in that place that NASA would be envious. He did contract work for the various ammo/arms manufacturers and travelled the world over as a contract forensic ballistician. After I retired he once offered me a part time job. When I inquired about his offer he said he had 100,000 rounds of 357 mag. ammo that needed to be fired. I said "I like to shoot but no thanks"!

Bill was free with information and always willing to answer questions from a neophyte. He knew I was interested in shotgun terminal ballistics and often had me over to his shop to discuss results of my pattern testing. I learned a bunch from that guy but should have paid more attention as I did not learn enough. I wish he were here to participate in this discussion.

Bill and I hunted grouse together on many occasions. He was a confirmed sxs shooter with no preference for any of the US made guns. I never saw him use anything but guns from the big USA firms though. His favorite grouse gun was an LC and boy was it rough. And interestingly enough, I never saw him use a double that was not Damascus. I think he knew something long before others did.

Anyway I wish he were here to add to this discussion. You would have enjoyed it. I miss him and this discussion brought up old memories.

[Tom Flanigan]

It would have been great to have someone with expertise like Bill’s on this thread. As we get older, we lose more of our friends. It never abates and I hate it. I miss all of my friends who have passed. I also miss the many bird dogs and retrievers I have had over the years. I remember them all and think of them often. I especially miss my two all-time best grouse dogs, Rusty and Stoney. They were both grand gun dogs and real characters.

Heaven for me would be a Tinkhamtown type experience with both Rusty and Stoney leading the way. Rusty was my first bird dog and Stoney came much later. Hardly a day goes by that I don’t think of them and the others. I was blessed for sure.

[Paul Harm]

I quoted from a 2004 Accurate Reloaders Guide about pressure does not effect recoil. Here it is:" Recoil: This is certainly the most discussed aspect of the shotgun shooting sport, and this is understandable so, because it determines the " comfort " of shooting hundreds of rounds in quick succession. Because it's such a subjective issues/subject, the conclusions and recommendations are most of the time unfortunately shrouded in confusion, and corrupted by improper comparisons.
Normal physics still do apply, and in this case Newton's Third Law: For every action there is a equal and opposite reaction. Formula: Mass of bullet+ mass of powder X velocity = mass-gun X velocity-gun. "
I don't see pressure anywhere in the formula. They go to write about the shooter, because he's holding the gun, becomes part of the equation. This is where felt recoil comes into play.
So, I'm not just giving my opinion, but quoting what a powder company has written in a reloading manual. Hope this clears a thing or two up.

[Gary Laudermilch]

This one of the best and easiest to use recoil calculators I have found. Additionally, it does a fair job of explaining free recoil calculations.

http://www.omahamarian.org/trap/shotshellenergy.html

You can easily play around with different parameters to see the effect they have on free recoil. You will quickly see that shot charge, velocity, and gun weight are the parameters that have the most effect with shot charge being the most significant. You will also see that chamber pressure has no bearing on any of the calculations.

[William Davis]

Physics aside I vote for Shot charge and Gun weight making the significant difference with recoil. Reason is range of variables are much larger than powder charge. With a 12 G You can shoot a 6 lb or 9 lb gun. Load can vary from 3/4 to 1 1/4 oz. Powder charge minor differences.

William