VHE Trap - Page 5

Mark Conrad · 03-12-2010, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Lester

One of the features Mark noted for my gun that was ordered in "Trap Configuration" was 2 5/8" chambers were specified. This was my first research letter where chamber length was mentioned. Again the gun is from 1928. I am guessing that 2 3/4" 12ga was available at that time but had not become standard and the person ordering the gun wanted shorter chambers for performance reasons or planned to shoot 2 5/8" loads.

Chamber length for awhile was another variable for "trap" guns or so it appears.

Pete, Bill is right on the 2 5/8 inch chambers. Most 12 ga. guns built in that time period had 2 5/8 inch chambers. It was written in the stock book so I put it in the letter. Most of the 12 ga. guns on that stock book page had the same thing. The Trap Configuration was written in the stock book which is unusal. In fact, I don't recall seeing it on another gun. I am not really sure what they meant by that comment. It could have been a full comb or something else. There are plenty of double traps in the stock books that don't have the trap configuration comment.

Mark

C.O.B. · 03-12-2010, 02:35 PM

I wonder why there are more graded trap guns VS skeet guns? The majority of skeet guns are VHE and you seldom find a VHE trap gun.

Mark Conrad · 03-12-2010, 03:37 PM

One reason is that skeet shooters would shoot different guages and need more than one gun.

Mark

Austin W Hogan · 03-13-2010, 09:22 AM

I think we have fallen into the trap of what is called in science "aliasing the data"; that is we are assigning physical properties to something by giving that thing a name.
I suggest everyone re read Ken Waite's material in Iron Men of Gundom. Prior to 1910, The GAH, and a lot of other major trap tournaments, were won by shooters using DH Parkers with proper stock dimensions. These had splinter forends, the shooter's choice of grips, perhaps a specified choke, usually "as close as possible" or "tighten", sometimes a specified trigger pull, and the shooter's stock dimensions. There was no trap gun moniker applied.
Charles Newcomb purchased a "stictly stock" DH in 1901 and won many tournaments with it before buying a DHE in 1906. He converted to the single barrel trap gun a few years later, when clay bird tournaments required only one shot. Most other competitors did the same.
DuBray's 1901 table of competitors' Parker stock dimensions shows competitors at major events used barrel lengths 26 - 32 inches and a wide varieties of weights.
The VH(E) 30 inch, F & F two frame, and the M & F 1 1/2 as well, are pretty good trap guns if the gun has your dimensions. I have a VHE two frame, 32 inch, straight grip, monte carlo, btfe, no safety, single trigger that isn't labelled trap gun, and may not have been used at trap 90 years ago, but it has won our local league's A division 6 times.

I think we are around to provenance again; a Parker is a trap gun if it can be tied to use on a trap field. Don't forget that a trapshooter's duck gun might be configured exactly as his trap gun.

Best, Austin

Dean Romig · 03-13-2010, 09:47 AM

Some very good points Austin. The majority of trap shooters were not pros in those days, probably 98% amatuers who used their waterfowl and pheasant guns to shoot trap as most probably only had one gun.

Autumn Daze · 03-13-2010, 09:53 AM

Austin,A DHE 32" PG,BTF,recoil pad ,single trigger,vent rib,full and full gun that I have possesion of was owned by HH Ganson who was a known CT trap shooter.Also my VHE gun in the same configuration was owned by William Saxby or his father who was a noted trap shooter in the early days.As an aside Saxby was the attorney general under Nixon I believe.I bought the VHE from Mr. Murphy some years back.Both these guns have the provenance that you speak of.

So if I am understanding this correctly you are saying that Parker didn,t make a trap gun unless it can be provenanced to a trap shooter?

Twoatlow8 · 03-13-2010, 11:35 AM

With a post this long about Trap guns I thought it was time for a picture or two.

Autumn Daze · 03-13-2010, 12:25 PM

Scott, Thanks for posting those pictures! Very very nice!

Austin W Hogan · 03-13-2010, 04:41 PM

Dave; I don't think a trap gun has to be provenanced to a shooter to be a trap gun, but the light 26 inch gun shown in Du Bray's table of competitor's measurements was certainly a trap gun.
Parker had a number of flyers and leaflets in the 1920's promoting trap guns and offering retrofits of trap (btfe) fore ends, ejectors and vent ribs. Cdr Gunther, Bill, and Charlie collected s/n of late guns with vent ribs and tabulated them as Trap Guns in The Parker Story.
The brochures, including one from Jeff Kuss that appeared in Winter Parker Pages encouraged trap shooters to enhance scores with BTFE, rib etc, but did not offer a specific model with some or all of these features as a "trap gun".
I remember examining the gun that John Dunkle has brought to our New Years Day outing, and pouring over the order book page trying to decifer the entry "rib like trap". Then the bells rang; a rib like a trap gun; a ventilated rib like a single barrel trap.
I think it boils down to the old story; some people collect guns, some people collect marks on guns, and some people collect stories about guns. A nice gun, with good marks, and a good story to go along, should be very desirable to all three collectors.

Best, Austin

Autumn Daze · 03-13-2010, 05:22 PM

Thank You Austin,Parker as well as all the other gun makers of the time were out to capitalize on the popularity of the sport of trap and later the sport of skeet.Offering retrofits of existing guns made perfectly good business sense and I think from the advertising we have seen did a pretty good job.In a sense they could sell the same gun twice.