Dolls Head/Rib Extension Fit?

[Skybuster]

Originally Posted by edgarspencer

Bill, It was Brian, Not me, who gave the explanation for the gap.

The photo here shows a gun which was off face by enough to see daylight, roughly a sheet of copy paper. Aurora Micro Welding laser welded the hook for me, and I dressed it back down with a 3/8" round diamond file, smoking the hook and the dolls head the whole time. Prior to welding, the front hooked edges of the dolls head were just rubbing the recess. When I finished dressing the hook, the dolls head was no longer rubbing, and if you look closely, you'll see the gap on the front edge. I consider this more than acceptable.

Thanks for posting your personal example, it explains what I had assumed would be the case for bring a gun back on face. The barrels are being set back on the standing breech and so everything moves back with it, including the dolls head. I was not aware that the dolls head was fitted after the barrels where brought on face at the factory.

Funny you should mention Puglisi's as an example for how guns should look. All of the screenshots are from Puglisi guns on GI. GI allows a zoom function and the zoom probably does make it look worse, but that wasn't the intention. Just speculation as to how or why this may happen.

[Bill Murphy]

Sorry, but when "setting the barrels back", nothing about the relationship between the breech face and the breech end of the barrels changes. All changes are at the hook and loop. When the hook and loop are repaired, the relationship between the doll's head and the breech face are not changed. Maybe Brian Dudley can comment. Again, am I right or wrong?

[edgarspencer]

Bill, that has been my experience, on the few I have put back on face. If I'm reading Brian's description, he says it is possible there may be a change in the dolls head fit, but I'm not sure how.

[Aaron Beck]

As I understand the general process
1.Build up the hook with weldment
2.Dress this down so the fit between the hook and roll are perfect
3. Any remaining "setback" is taken off the breech face which will likely result in the dolls head also being dressed a bit.

[edgarspencer]

Originally Posted by Aaron Beck

3. Any remaining "setback" is taken off the breech face which will likely result in the dolls head also being dressed a bit.

No, that's where you get into trouble. Just look at the end of a set of barrels to see all the surfaces that would be impacted.

You were doing good, with 1 and 2. Just keep smoking and removing metal from the hook until you get a good closure. The last .0005"-.001" you should be down to 1000 grit, or even crocus cloth. I like crocus cloth because you'll end up with about a 16 micro inch finish.

I can't think of any situation where you would alter any surface at the rear of the barrels. The fitters at Parker went to great lengths to get a perfect fit between the receiver and the barrels. Doing so would affect the dolls head, chamber rim depth, recoil bearing surface of the back lug, and fore end fit.

[Stan Hoover]

Edgar,

Not to disagree but,

I’ve had a few guns that were off face and I had what I would consider a reputable smith correct the problem.
Now only one of these was a later hammer gun with the rib extension (dolls head), others were lifters with no dolls head. The top lever gun dolls head had gaps before the work was done, but when the gun was finished, the dolls head was noticeably more rearward than before.
I was under the impression that the barrel breach ends were made true so to be perfectly on face again.
After being off face pretty severely, would the breach end of the barrels be completely true to the frame?

Only trying to learn,
Stan

[Aaron Beck]

Stan, youre likely on the right track.
Edgar, I wasnt taking a position one way is right and the other wrong, just trying to clarify how the dolls head came to be further back, if it did so migrate.

Perhaps this is like getting some holes drilled in the bottom rib when rebluing. From a collector pov thats a no no but it is defensible from a gunsmithing procedure standpoint if the ribs arent steam tight.

[Bill Murphy]

Concerning Edgar's last post, "Now were getting somewhere." No correction of looseness in a Parker will result in the breech face of the receiver or the barrel face moving fore or aft, in relation to the other. All wear and correction happens at the hook and the loop. The doll's head will not move in relation to the barrel face either. They are ONE part, fastened together. Any gap in the doll's head will be accompanied by a similar gap at the breech face, again, because they are one part, fastened together by whatever means. A doll's head gap will be caused by several different occurrences, barrel set being replaced, filing of the doll's head being two. Sorry, those are the only two I can think of. If the doll's head is a perfect fit from the factory, it should be a perfect fit a hundred years later.
It's not a wearing surface. Brian, please comment.

[John Davis]

All this discussion over something that means absolutely nothing to the mechanics of the gun. It’s purely aesthetic. It serves no real purpose. I suppose it’s like engraving, beautiful when done correctly. An eyesore when fouled up.

[Dean Romig]

Thank You John.





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